Whether you are a newcomer to United Methodism, a longtime member, or a passerby looking askance, these days it is obvious there is a lot of controversy going on in The United Methodist Church.
The following is an attempt to describe the current state of The UMC in a succinct manner that admittedly over-simplifies things with broad brush strokes. Nonetheless, it will be a useful primer for people to enter the conversation.
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United Methodism At A Glance
The UMC occupies a unique place in America and on the world stage.
The UMC is a global, mainline, evangelical Church. It sits at the intersection between evangelical (baptists, etc.) and mainline (the Seven Sisters of Protestantism) denominations, drawing the best elements from them both. On the global stage, it has a unique composition: progressive and conservative people together under a global democratic representative polity with episcopal governance.
At one time it was the largest denomination in America—now it is third behind the Roman Catholics and Southern Baptists, with the LDS (Mormon) church not far behind.
The Methodist tradition, which began in the 18th century, had gone through many schisms, reunions, branches, and offshoots before its largest entity finally settled on its current form of The United Methodist Church in 1968.
But…
But today, this unique denomination is seemingly vulnerable to either:
- division over LGBTQ inclusion or
- a Southern Baptist-style takeover that drives out progressives and causes moderate and LGBTQ-inclusive evangelicals to either leave or compromise their beliefs.
Here’s what’s going on.
The debate over LGBTQ inclusion
United Methodist polity and beliefs are up for debate and refinement or complete overhaul every four years at General Conference. Prohibitions against LGBTQ persons first appeared in UMC polity in 1972. Currently, in its rules, LGBTQ persons must divorce their same-gender spouses before serving as clergy, and no clergy person is allowed to officiate same-gender weddings.
Application of these rules is widely divergent.
- Some clergy interpret our rules to mean they can refuse baptism of children to same-gender parents, deny local church membership to LGBTQ persons, or terminate LGBTQ employees.
- But other clergy choose to officiate weddings and subject themselves to peer accountability processes (which may or may not end up revoking their clergy status), and some regional Boards of Ordained Ministry support LGBTQ persons as candidates for ministry despite the prohibitions. And over 900 church communities now affirm LGBTQ inclusion through affiliation with the Reconciling Ministries Network.
Remember that United Methodism has both mainline and evangelicalism qualities. While mainline denominations (Lutherans, Episcopalians, etc.) have affirmed LGBTQ persons to varying degrees, United Methodist polity is closer to contemporary evangelicalism on this topic, with the votes split 55%/45% in recent years.
So What is happening now?
Into this gridlocked debate, the 2016 General Conference supported the “A Way Forward” process put forth by the UMC bishops. For two years, a diverse group of UM laity, clergy, and bishops discerned a plan forward for the denomination. Its full proposal (called “One Church” to be released soon) supports moving the prohibition decision away from the global level so that each region can choose to include LGBTQ persons or not.
However, some caucus groups (most notoriously the Traditionalist “Wesleyan Covenant Association,” formed before the 2016 GC) are supporting alternative plans. Some would divide the UMC into various branches. Some would remove anti-LGBTQ language altogether. But the most-supported one would grant Traditionalists enhanced powers to force the expulsion of progressive churches and clergy from The UMC. If the Traditionalist plan does not pass, the Traditionalists will likely leave The UMC.
The likely vote between the One Church proposal or the Traditionalist Takeover proposal will be February 23-26, 2019.
Has this happened before?
It didn’t have to happen this way. The UMC has previously come to terms with including minority groups into the Church, prevailed over Traditionalist opposition, and emerged better for it with both mainline and evangelical qualities.
Progressive, Moderate, and Conservative people worked together before to advance the rights of women to become clergy (1956) and to fully include African American pastors (1968). In both cases, there were Traditionalist elements who had opposed the inclusion of women and black pastors for decades, but their influence had waned because of the inclusion efforts of culture (women and minority voting rights or civil rights movements predated church inclusion).
These two advancements made United Methodism the most inclusive denomination in America—it still is the largest denomination affirming women’s ordination. And all of Methodism, especially Methodism globally, has benefitted from these two acts of inclusion.
Two Wildcards
But this time around, things are different.
First, the Traditionalists have significant advantages of numbers, money, and organization.
- The Traditionalist forces against LGBTQ inclusion have not suffered the attrition that decades of gradual cultural acceptance had made for women and persons of color (though both seem to be waning in recent years!). Same-gender marriage has only been legal nationwide for three years as of this writing.
- Traditionalist opposition is better funded and well-organized this time, capitalizing on the anti-institutional zeitgeist of contemporary culture.
Second, while the changes would affect American expressions of polity, the global church votes on the changes, including Africa which constitutes 38% of the votes – a big wildcard!
- On the one hand, Traditionalist Africans have seen what happened in the Anglican Communion’s inability to censure The Episcopal Church due to its hands-off polity. Similarly, the One Church model places the discernment over LGBTQ persons closer to the affected community rather than dictated from afar.
- On the other hand, church unity is fundamental to many African delegates, and maintaining a connected church across the hemispheres allows Africa to shape the worldwide church, even if the American contingent looks more like its context than theirs.
These two variables have brought into question whether 2019 will be more of the same conflict, or whether a way forward with grace will prevail.
Endgame 2019
For the typical Methodist, there’s much more to be done with United Methodism. The UMC is the only church in the Top Five Denominations to affirm women’s ordination. UMCOR is the jewel that all other denominational social agencies admire. UMC organizational structure allows for responses and resources that independent churches lack.
But for Traditionalists, while their members benefit from the inclusion of women and African-Americans, they are unwilling to extend the same hand to members of the LGBTQ community. And they believe their numbers and influence are such that they don’t need progressives (or even moderates) in the Church anymore. They’ve “gone about as far as they can go.”
February 2019 has become the endgame for this conflict, hence the upheaval, posturing, acrimony, and blog posts. Either The UMC continues to set itself as the best of mainline and evangelicalism together in a world of polarities, including All to follow their calls to ministry, or it will dissolve into its warring factions and fade into the background of the religious landscape.
The choice is ours.
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Your Turn
(So it was 1100 words. Apologies!)
Thoughts?
Thanks for reading, commenting, and sharing on social media.
Well stated. We at Green Mountain United Methodist Church are PROUD members of the Reconciling Ministries Network. And, we are PROUD to have Karen P. Oliveto as our Bishop.
I wish I belonged to a Reconciling Ministries Network, but I’m from a small town in Northeastern Colorado. I, too, am proud to call Bishop Karen my bishop.
You may join as an individual & would be warmly welcomed.
Good for you. Reconciling Ministries is so important. And Karen is indeed wonderful.
So being a traditionalist is “notorious”. The “One Church Plan” will certainly destroy any church unity of Methodism. The acceptance of LGBT will officially destroy church unity, but at least I will have a clear conscience if I no longer name myself as a Methodist. This isn’t about race or true gender (male / female). You want me to accept a progressive lifestyle that is not truth. Sorry but I can’t play your game.
This makes me profoundly sad.
Totally agree. I just learned of this entire “discussion” over Thanksgiving weekend. Although I consider myself now an agnostic, I was still raised by the Methodist Church and always considered them to be an open group. It is unbelievable this conversation is happening in 2018. Yet again, my cynicism in organized religion proves true.
You packed so much info and truth into ~1,000 words. Very well said and hopefully well-heeded. As an “approved, but unappointed” candidate for LLP, I would love the ability to start an RMN church in my area. I keep looking for one here, but no such luck nor do I have faith that the powers that be in my conference would bless it.
Well said and explained. Sharing on http://www.wheretrueloveis.com
The African church may have 38% of world wide UMC influence but it does not have but a fraction of the financial support that Americans provide …. Just saying
Praying that the love of God will provide a way forward
I’m confused by your statement? “Africian only have a fraction of the financials America’s have”. Are you saying their votes should be deminished due to your believe that they can not financially support it? This has nothing to do with fianances and yet everything to do with faith and what one believes.
What Kent is referencing is the fact that numerous North American congregations provide more in financial support to the denomination then entire African conferences. Not only are they paying for their own congregations, but are also additionally paying for the upkeep and ministries of the African ministries. Yet, the North American congregation has a smaller number of votes, due to the fact that votes are based on the number of members that the congregation has on record. If it were not for the financial support of the US congregations, the African congregations wouldn’t even exist.
Allen, you’re right that US-based financial support is critical for our brothers and sisters in Africa. I’m sure that many congregations would survive without that support, but conference structures certainly would not. However, if we were consistent, we might also say that were it not for the financial support of other US congregations and conferences, the Western Jurisdiction wouldn’t even exist. (Or perhaps it would exist with a single, coterminous conference led by one sole bishop.)
Thank you for reply John. This is something that I find interesting. My parents 15 member UMC was closed ecuase they could no longer pay their apportionments. If we applied that same logic then should we not require the same from the African contingent? If US churches are being closed due to financial reasons then should African congregations be held to the same standard? I don’t know the actual numbers, but let’s say for the sake of argument that apportionments were $100 per year per member. If an African congregation wants to maintain voting rights based on their membership shouldn’t that be based on full self supported payment of apportionments based on said membership?
So, some of you are saying that because the US branch of the UMC can flash more cash than the African branch, the US branch should be able to determine faith and spiritual decisions even though they are now the smaller branch of members? Wow, that’s a sad commentary on what the US branch of United Methodism has become.
Probably what would be best for all in the UMC is for a split. Traditional Methodist and Liberal Methodist churches, as the Presbyterians have done. Another approach would be to do what the Lutherans did. Their denominations are nation based, so the ELCA [liberal Lutheran church] is a US branch, the LCMS [conservative Lutheran church] is also a US branch. Canada has its own branches of Lutheranism, etc., in Europe and Africa, etc. They all have the same basic bedrock beliefs of Lutheranism as per the Book of Concord, but on these social type issues they tend to differ. So maybe it’s time for the UMC to stop trying to make this work.
One last approach that the UMC might want to consider. The ELCA Lutheran Church does allow LGBTQ weddings and ordinations, but what they did was not make it a requirement, but left that up to the local church. So, those churches in the ELCA that wanted gay marriage and gay clergy were free to do that, while the others were free to choose to NOT have gay marriage/clergy.
News flash: There are LGBT people throughout Africa. They are even more marginalized than they are in the USA & Europe, often facing the death penalty for being their natural born selves.
Love must be “decriminalized” everywhere on Earth, including the UMC, African nations (who haven’t yet done so), and all other groups who claim to be “Christian”.
If we have to wait for an old intolerant generation to die off, as with slavery, racism, and women’s rights, so be it. It’s a shame if it must come to that.
We continue to be in prayer about this, as we work within our church and our region to spread the very good news of Jesus’ radically inclusive love.
Your phrasing resonates with what continues to be in my mind during these discussions: “Jesus’ radically inclusive love”. Thank you for providing me a gentle way to say what has been in my heart.
Thank you – easy to share with congregations. An observation- using the term “Traditionalist” can assign more legitimacy to their movement. I prefer “Discriminatory”.
Life-long Methodist here (58 years). Jill has clearly drawn the line with her bias and liberal leanings. Like most liberals in today’s society, she wants to throw labels around to force the issue. If she wins, she will say her methods proved successful. If she loses, she will not remain quiet, but will likely increase the partisan rhetoric, further widening the gap between the two sides.
I agree with Billy. No labeling, please.
Fair point, but the irony that Billy himself engages in heavy labeling isn’t lost. Based on Jill’s single, short sentence, he’s already got a label for her, already decided her current motivations and predicted her future actions in a complex topic. It can be hard sometimes to hear another person out if you think you’ve got them “all figured out.”
Labels have many purposes. Some are nefarious, some are sincere. Sometimes, they can even substitute for critical thinking. If you’re not aware of what the speaker’s intent is with a label, ask, don’t assume.
What Scott said.
Thank you for this.
Surely you could have sliced off a hundred words.
Well written, prayers for the next year!
We were Presbyterian USA members for 20 years until we moved to a small town that didn’t have a Presbyterian church. My neighbor invited us to her church, UMC and so we switched our membership to there after attending it for a while. We have since retired and moved again. Maybe it’s time to switch back to Presbyterian USA since they appear to have finally settled the LGBTQ issue in favor of inclusiveness. We’ll wait until we see what happens next year.
I’m not going to argue with Jesus.
Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight.
Jesus loves the little children
Of the world.
Jesus died for all the children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight.
Jesus died for all the children
Of the world.
Jesus rose for all the children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight.
Jesus rose for all the children
Of the world.
yeah john 3:17, the world is my parish! one church?
This should have not been up for discussion. The scripture is very clear. Read Romans 1:12. Either you are pleasers of God or pleasers of men. You choose. Heaven or hell!
No matter what is decided at upper levels, it should never impact the vital ministry happening at the local level. The current practice of the UMC already generally gives local congregations autonomy to be in ministry as they see fit whether traditional or progressive. If/when it is voted upon to make regional autonomy official, I fear that will be seen as another “indecision” and people on both edges of traditional and progressive will leave in droves. As a pastor in the UMC I have had conversations with families who regret leaving the local body but wish to leave them UMC because we are “too open and affirming” and the next day another family because we “are not open and affirming enough!” Both sides have created a no-win situation where many will leave no matter what the result simply because they didn’t get their way. It seems as though the United Methodist Church is no longer United and has not been for some time.
You cover a lot of ground well. I hope you have overestimated the influence of the so called traditionalists. These are largely represented by a few well financed caucus groups (IRD, WCA, Good News. et al). But I do not think they represent a majority of the UMC. The only evidence I can offer is a series of votes taken at the North Georgia annual conference in June. The upshot of these votes was that about 75% of the 1,500 delegates voting (clergy and lay delegates) hoped that the results of the 2019 Special GC would keep the church united. About 25% said they would leave if the outcome did not suit them. Interestingly, 21% said they would leave if the BOD was changed to remove restricrive LGBTQ language, while 4% said they would leave if the BOD was not changed. I conclude that the hard right may top out at 20%.
I was just about to quote this video of Bishop Sue Haupert Johnson’s summary of this poll. https://vimeo.com/276351658 It seemed like, judging by her speech, most people would not leave if things didn’t go their way at this coming special General Conference, but people who support full inclusion were even less likely to leave if this Special General Conference didn’t vote their way.
I have been Methodist since age 4, when I asked Jesus into my heart. Now I am nearly 84 years old, and if the church splits I will go with neither one. I have served in many aspects of the church, as Sunday school teacher and Superintendent, choir member, pianist, lay pastor, Annual Conference Native American Committee Chair, and many other service positions. I am not sure where I shall go, but the traditional is too narrow, exclusive, and seems not as well educated, to my mind, and the Progressive one is too angry and ‘in your face’. I cannot fully identify with either one. Perhaps I shall just stay with the Native American Christian community, for they seem to be able to understand Christianity better than most other Christians do.
If it comes to this, I shall certainly miss those individuals in the church who truly do understand the love that the faith is supposed to practice, but I know that there is much love in Native community. Anyway, at age 84 it won’t be long until I am in the presence of perfect love.
Bless you, Ms. Anne, and thank you for your life of service and witness.
Love you, ANNE
God Bless You, Ann.
This is an end time conflict the Lord has allowed to fester & come to the surface because all members of the body of Christ need to make a decision. If we have personally received Grace, unmerited favor, are we willing to share that Grace with those who have traditionally deemed unworthy Traditional damning only diminishes the work accomplished by the Lord’s work on the cross You either earned it or it was an undeserved gift !
I don’t think it’s that simple
Grace was never earned. It’s what’s called preveniant grace. That’s a dollar word for grace we have but didn’t earn!
I’m a 62 yr old progressive UM pastor. The Traditionalists have shown their true colors. I don’t think they’ll leave the UMC, I think they’ll claim to be the UMC so the progressives will have to vacate their churches and find new property. Their excessive enthusiasm for obsolete, non-scriptural notions will kill them soon enough. Maybe the Methodist movement has run its course. Nothing lasts forever. I am considering retiring before it hits the fan, but considering this is all church business, it could take a looong time to settle everything. May God bless us all.
Non-scriptural notions? Such as?
No place to raise children….after 52 years a Methodist…I’m GONE! Changing orthodoxy has confused & pulled us apart…the infallible Word is now like Jell-O!
I’ll find a church built on ROCK, not the sand Methodism is built upon…will “spew out the luke-warm from my mouth” & seek TRUTH elsewhere. Shaking the sand from my sandals to seek believers.
Absolutely Steve Glaros ! My sentiments exactly . If we cannot preach the infallible word of God, then why even use the Bible ? Why even go to church. I refuse to accept what is wrong , or be dragged into the pit of Hell for not following the teachings of the Bible , rather picking and choosing at will. It is wrong not to preach it ALL as the way it was intended . To Repent and have a change of heart to do right in the eyes of the Lord is the only way to look at true following . The church is for teaching the truth, and for repenting, and accepting that human sexuality was intended to be between a man and woman. I pray the Lord will open the eyes and hearts of his people to this beautiful truth.
I’m not going to ride the fence line or kick the can down the road any longer. First I believe that LGBT should be allowed as general members within the church. With that being said, I do not believe LGBT members should hold positional authority within the church. It may be hard for any one else to understand. I left the Episcopal church many years ago for this very same reason and at one time I was planning on fulfilling a plan to become ordained in that church. It came to an abrupt halt. I eventually became Methodist. Now the issue raises its head again. I do not church shop. I’m inclined to follow the article and convert to one of the more conservative churches. If we can not leave the Disciplines alone we really do not have a guide, do we? Again, everyone & I mean everyone is included to join and become members. Positional authority is a whole nother story. If you become a member and you accept the rules, then don’t not come under false pretenses to change those very rules you accepted. Or it becomes a lie. I’m not going to apologize because the Church is the last bastion of society that is the bedrock of our lives. I am and always will be accepting but I will not cross certain lines. There are many, many who actually believe the same thing.. I have made my decision and will suffer the consequences if the Methodist church does not grab hold of itself. As you can see I’m not politically correct. I speak my mind while being as respectful as I can. Church politics and this question should have been settled many years ago. Not studied & researched for years upon years. Stop kicking the can down the road and get this settled and over with.
When the Book of Discipline was changed in 1972 to exclude LGBTQ people, would it have been better to leave it alone? The Discipline is changed in many ways every four years at General Conference. That’s the purpose of General Conference. Are all the changes bad or just some of them? A hundred fifty years ago, the Book of Discipline was very small. Many changes have been made. The United Methodist Church in other countries have their own version of the Discipline. I am not at all sure what you mean by “the Methodist church does not grab hold of itself,” but I agree that “this question should have been settled many years ago.” The amount of time, energy, and money that has been spent on this single issue could have fed, housed, and clothed many thousands of people, made many churches accessible to people with disabilities, and helped many communities recover from disasters. We do need to find a way to continue on and focus on the mission of Jesus Christ in the world.
You are leaving out one very important historical detail–Methodism split over the issue of slavery in 1844. The issue was much like the inclusion of LGBTQ people, in that it was couched in the language of episcopal authority versus local church autonomy, with the pro-slavery Methodists claiming that the anti-slavery Methodists needed to listen to church authority and tradition and stop rocking the boat in regards to slavery and other issues like lifetime status of bishops.
The church only reunited over 100 years later when society had largely changed to the point that slavery was a non-issue, even if race remained one.
This seems to me to be the most likely scenario for our current situation.
We can remain the UMC if we consider something very important here. The Scriptures are replete with verses which give God’s Word on LGBTQ. Some of the verses can be read and nothing really jumps out as pro or con. However, others are very specific. I need to find my list in order to be able at this moment to list them. To be honest, I saw that list first so many years ago that I never realized anything like that would come to this. Another time when I should have realized what is wrong here.
I certainly think we should realize that we must minister to people of all persuasios, LGBTQ included, because God has provided a way “of escape” for such as they. B-U-T I know that we should thoroughly screen all candidates for ministry from a Sunday school teacher all the way up to clergy at all levels on up to the highest of our bishops. That is where I believe we make our biggest mistake. We need to realize that the new Christian is just a “babe in Christ.” We need to feed him the milk of the word. Give him soft food as he grows, and then give him meat when his fully able to chew it thoroughly. Then if he matures in his spirit to the point at which he is ready under the leadership of the Holy Spirit to say that he desires to be prepared for the ministry. He should be educated and mentored by those who are grounded in the Scriptures and secure in their faith.
To begin with, we need to know as much as possible where each person asking for membership in UMC is in his walk with the Lord and take “parent” him and watch him grow.
I think we should be inclusive and will not support the church again until we are.
How about reading Romans 1:26-32. Sounds pretty sound to me and definitely intentional. Do we just skip over this and pretend that Gid did not know what he was talking about because did not use lGBTQ, or GAY wording ?
“As I have loved you, so must ye love one another” said Jesus. If the UMC can’t understand that, it isn’t a Christian organization anyway. Jesus never once mentioned gay people, any where, any time.
If anyone can point to a single reference in any of the common scriptures wherein the LGBTQ lifestyle is approved or shown to glorify our Creator God, please come forward. While Methodists are an inclusive bunch by nature, we are guided by scripture, and without question Homosexuality and all forms of sexual deviations are called out in scripture as a perversion of the created nature of humankind. Jesus himself provides a perfect guide to the created nature of man and woman, in Matthew 19. “Do you not recall that from the beginning God created them, Man and Woman, and for this purpose (Marriage) the man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall be as one flesh.” He goes on to say a few verses later that “This is a very difficult teaching, and many will not be able to accept it, for some are born Eunuchs, some are made Eunuchs by the world, and still others choose to live as eunuchs:…” So, what is Jesus referring to here? He’s speaking to Hebrews who do not keep eunuchs, so why does he use this reference? What is a eunuch? Can we define it as a man who does not have masculinity? I know of no man born without testicles, nor do I know of anyone who has purposely emasculated himself, but certainly they are few. So why does Jesus refer to “Many” who will not be able to accept this? I believe he is referring to those in the LGBTQ community. So, are homosexuals born that way, are they made that way or do they choose to live that way? Jesus says all of the above. But he also says that marriage is not for them. This is a sinful remnant of our fall from grace, and we need to love each other regardless of our sin, but we should not glorify it. Do we celebrate adultery in our ranks? Do we offer whiskey during communion so that alcoholics feel welcomed? Do we honor pedophiles or drug addicts? No. We love them, but we do not celebrate those things. And so it is with LGBTQ issues. Love them, but as a church we are remiss to be harassed and cajoled and intimidated into acceptance of obvious sin.
Jesus said the remarried divorcees are living in adultery, that is, unless unfaithfulness caused the divorce. Like many major denominations, like the Catholics. and most Southern Baptists, Methodists did not allow remarrying divorcees to be married in Methodist Churches. Then, back in the 1950s, we removed that. Now remarried divorcees may even be ordained pastor. Why did we change? Because many remarried divorcees were living lives dedicated to Christ and His Church. That is a precedence that we are not going to judge, but let God do His own judging. Now many same-sex married are being observed to also be living lives dedicated to Christ and His. Equivalent admonitions call for equivalent treatment. We have precedence and equivalence, which bear heavy weight in both logic and law. Let’s leave God’s judgment up to God. Jesus was on club inclusive. So should we be.
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Well, If you consider all of the evidence in scripture that Homosexuality is specifically called out as sinful, and weigh that against the one or two minor references to divorce causing adultery except in the case of unfaithfulness, then I think you would see that there are very real differences between divorce and homosexuality. This is not a condemnation of Homosexuals, but rather a scripturally based discernment. Same Sex couples can live in dedication to Christ the same as alcoholics…they do great right up until they want that next drink…
We are all sinners…but we do not celebrate our sins at the alter. Neither should we celebrate the sin of Homosexuality at the alter…
I celebrate who I am at the alter. I celebrate who I am in Christ everywhere. I celebrate a beautiful God who created me to be in His beautiful image. So, yes, Mr. Bergner, I celebrate my queerness everywhere including the altar. “I praise You for I am fearfully and wonderfully made!”
Where is the authority of Scripture is all this rhetoric?
There are countless books, essays, blogs, sermons, Facebook entries about the Christian religion written by equally educated, highly intelligent, well documented, well-meaning, reputable theologians, historians, philosophers, ministers, lay people, and scientists and their interpretations of the bible range all over the spectrum – from one extreme to the other. The messages from our pastors, ministers, preachers vary over the entire gamut of interpretations.
At some point, we, as individual Methodists, have to enlist the Wesleyan Quadrilateral and come to a comfortable understanding for ourselves. (OK, it may not actually be a quadrilateral, but, as one person described it, an unilateral rule of Scripture within a trilateral hermeneutic of reason, tradition, and experience – just wanted to toss in a little random psychobabble theology).
In short, I personally believe the Methodist Church is wrong in its codified position.
My readings, my experience, my reasoning, my tradition, my personal relationships lead me to the personal conclusion that, in the context of today’s culture, science, and world view the Bible does not condemn homosexuality – I believe that God is more concerned with who we love than with who we condemn. I do not believe it is a sin. I do not believe that homosexuality is a choice, nor do I believe that sexuality is a binary emotion. Science and logic tell me that sexuality is a continuum, a spectrum – that people are positioned all across that spectrum.
This, perhaps, is where many Methodists find ourselves these days and we may have to address that hard question – if the prohibitions in the Discipline are retained, would remaining in the Methodist Church, with all it’s positive values, be the right choice for me? Just how strongly do we feel about the issue?
Chuck, you say “the Bible does not condemn homosexuality”… Have you read it? I think you might have missed a whole bunch of “stuff” in there…
Here, here! Or is that Hear, Hear? Chuck, I, too, have studied the scriptures, read many interpretations in the context of today (not centuries ago), listened to what modern biology has to say, used my intellect – all before, as, and since I attended seminary. My opinion agrees solidly with yours.
I am dizzy form this liberal spin. How can those who already agree with what the church says be plotting a takeover. Absurd.
What needs to be done is what the Bible tells us! I am 81 and was baptized as an infant in the Methodist church. Am a bit upset to see how it is changing. The Bible tells us marriage is between a man and a woman – not two of the same sex.
And the Bible also says that women, children and slaves are property of the male head of the household. But we no longer agree with or support those parts of scripture. We understand the Bible within the context of the society that it was written within. Also let us remember that these text were “written” and attributed to persons sometimes hundreds of years post the death of said author. There are numerous contradictions within what many call the “inerrant word of GOD.”
You will lose young people with the traditional stance. I just joined the church in March and I love it. I won’t stay if it becomes the Methodist “Southern Baptist” church. Think about the future of the church and let God be our judge.
A well-written description of the political situation and, yes, because of church polity, it IS a political question. But not one word in 1,100 about what the Bible has to say. That, to me, is the saddest part of the whole thing.
And here is my own–an much shorter take on the problem: For the better part of a century the American branch of the United Methodist Church has been a theological battleground and it is time for it to end. There is no “traditionalist take over”–the traditionalist understanding is the default theology that the church has wandered away from and there is absolutely nothing narrow about it. It is the wide open space of God’s amazing grace that is available to all who are willing to submit themselves to it. Which is something I finally did, and it opened my eyes to the theological mess the denomination is in. My respect and trust of The United Methodist Church is out the window. I have had several visualizations of the United Methodist Church over the past 6 years, including cats with their tails tied together. But now I just call it “The Keystone Cops Doing Church”–everybody running around doing what they feel is best and in the meantime those of us who want clear answers are looking elsewhere.
While it does seem that traditionalists will win out in Feb. 2019, I think the leaders of Good News, Confessing, and WCA are creating the appearance they are wanting to go separate ways from the UMC. I believe the goal here may be to ditch the name United Methodist Church, or even Methodist anything because the name has become so tainted with political progressivism. I think the conservatives in the church would love for the liberals to take the name UMC, as it is the name of a dying denomination just like Presbyterian USA and Episcopal Church (USA).
I think a new name with words like “Weslyan” and “Covenant” is in the making.
Having re-read your article I noticed something you left out when you talk about the “greatness” of The denomination: Americans are not choosing to become United Methodists or any of the mainline denominations that have already become “inclusive”. In fact the American United Methodist church has marked 50 years of uninterrupted numerical decline that has the ability to make the church disappear and the progressive Western Jurisdiction is leading the decline. There is also the reality that every other mainline denomination that has embraced progressive Christianity has only succeeded in accelerating their numerical decline.
Hi Betsy, the whole of Christendom is in general decline. Southern Baptists recently reported decline in baptisms. While individual churches and regions might be growing, overall all are in decline. Don’t mistake correlation for causation.
Sometimes I am not sure what is going on. Many blame the declining membership of churches on becoming too progressive in matters of ‘inclusion’, particularly same sex marriage. But, according to Pew research data, the percentage of the population that supports same sex marriage has risen significantly over the past several years and now includes 2/3’s of the population. If we look at the younger segments of the population, 74% of Millennials now support same sex marriage. Acceptance of same sex marriage has risen among whites, blacks and Hispanics. As the demographics change over the coming years the pool from which human sexuality conservatives draw on for support is apparently getting smaller and smaller. If the current trend continues, not only will they be facing different population demographics but a population becoming more receptive to same sex marriage across the age spectrum – a double whammy. As the next generation comes along, Gen-Y, Gen-Z, NetGen, iGen, GenTech, whatever they decide to officially call it, the acceptance percentage may be even higher. This to me, suggests that declining membership may not be as closely tied to ‘inclusion’ as some would have us believe. What am I missing? http://www.people-press.org/2017/06/26/support-for-same-sex-marriage-grows-even-among-groups-that-had-been-skeptical/
Hey Jeremy, The Assemblies of God church as a denomination has grown every year for the last 27 years and 54% of their members are under 35. They are now bigger that 5 of the 7 “mainline denominations”. The AG is very conservative as are the overwhelming majority of the booming evangelical churches. Which denomination has been blessed by God with growth since adopting progressive theology. The numbers don’t lie.
The Bible is the book of law. I don’t think it needs re interpretted. I hope we all read what it says while moving forward.
Exactly when did the discussion on sexual propriety occur? Were all the various forms of sexual expression fully explored? Have we now concluded that homosexuality is an acceptable expression of our sexuality and equivalent to heterosexuality? What about bestiality or pedophilia? Several years ago I asked a husband and wife clergy team who were both “progresive” ordained Methodist Ministers if they felt there was any preference or hierarchy for homosexual or heterosexual unions and they said that these unions were equivalent. The biblical model for marriage is the union of a man and woman. We have come back from annual conference with directions to remove men and women signs from our restrooms (we didn’t). Our bishop has appointed an openly practicing homosexual pastor to a church in our conference. Pastors who hold conservative views don’t get good appointments. It seems clear where the leadership in our conference leans but I won’t give up and leave.
Bestiality and pedophilia are wrong because children and animals hold no power. They cannot give consent. Children and animals are to be protected by us as ambassadors of the earth. Homosexuality cannot be lumped into this category because what goes on between consenting adults is between those adults and God. Furthermore, homosexuality does not revolve solely around sex any more than heterosexuality does. It encompasses so much more than that. Most importantly, it’s about love and affection.
You are equating women’s rights and civil rights movements with LGBTQ. It’s not about rights, it’s about sex and whether sex outside marriage between a Men and Women is sin.
I find that wisdom is lacking because scriptural condemnation of the Practice of Homosexuality is being deliberately ignored as our religious Careerist bishops seek to deceive God into looking the other way.
If the One Church Plan passes the final death knell for Methodists final death spiral as membership dives even further below 7 mil (was 12 mil).
The “Wolf” bishops are already ravaging their flocks.
I will be one of the departing informed by wisdom that our bishops find so sorely lacking. Await Feb 2019.
To those actually believing in the LORD God Almighty, it hurts to see the insanity that has taken over the church. Be bold, stand firm, be ready on That Day! We were born for such a time as this. You cannot change scripture to suit your own lifestyle~God will not be mocked. Pray for people’s eyes to be opened before too everlasting late! Our laxness in allowing sin has caused the exodus in the United Methodist church. People go to church to find something different than what the world has to offer! I see a time coming soon where true believers will be crucified and fed to lions and burned at the stake again….why??…because we have hate???
No because we have the love of Jesus. The religious leaders of Jesus’ day hated it when Jesus showed up; He convicts!! History repeats because we have not learned. The same religious leaders of today hate it when Jesus shows up. Jesus said~ go and sin no more, not~ oh honey, you are ok. Wake up church!!
My wife and I are seriously contemplating removing our membership from the UMC because of the disrespect of the progressives to our current church doctrine; if you disagree with church doctrine, please leave and support a church whose doctrine is in line with your beliefs. When we re-write the scripture to validate our sin there are consequences, and I fear that the majority of members will not abandon their consciences…so given no option, we will leave quietly with our Bible in hand and a clear conscience.
Methodists have been in schism as accountability standards not enforced against those violating official doctrinal standard “Practice of Homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching” (Sprague,Talbert, Oliveto Meredith). Retroactively approving clergy to practice homosexuality will not persuade God to dump His own scripture on this issue.
I may lose some comfortable Christian friends there but I reject the ongoing unaccountable rejection of scripture. Most folks totally apathetic & go to Bob Evans to eat immediately after the sermon & can’t tell you on Tuesday about Sunday’s sermon. The pastor dies his 20 minute thing & then it’s back into the box until next week. No more my $$ going up to these apostate bishops. Bye Bye Dec 2018
So sad that we are forced to leave our church family after 5 generations of membership. I feel as though There has been a death in the family.
Sorry, I ready your story kind of fast; I missed the scripture backing your position. Can you please re-post.
I find it eye opening that you referenced no scripture. Isn’t that where we, and particularly the church, should look for answers on specific topics?
You state that the UMC is facing “a Southern Baptist-style takeover that drives out progressives and causes moderate and LGBTQ-inclusive evangelicals to either leave or compromise their beliefs.”
The truth is quite the opposite. The UMC is standing and has stood since its inception on scripture. It is now facing a liberal takeover that drives out traditionalists to either leave or compromise their beliefs. The “traditionalists” as you call them are not pushing to change the church, the “progressives” are.