The Bishops were requested to lead, and they did, and the General Conference voted to let them…eventually.
The Bishops Lead
On the 8th day of General Conference, they did something rather unique: they passed something that has wide, complicated implications for all of United Methodism.
They affirmed this proposal by the Bishops in The UMC. Here’s the full text and here’s the essential part:
NEXT STEPS We recommend that the General Conference defer all votes on human sexuality and refer this entire subject to a special Commission, named by the Council of Bishops, to develop a complete examination and possible revision of every paragraph in our Book of Discipline regarding human sexuality. We continue to hear from many people on the debate over sexuality that our current Discipline contains language which is contradictory, unnecessarily hurtful, and inadequate for the variety of local, regional and global contexts. We will name such a Commission to include persons from every region of our UMC, and will include representation from differing perspectives on the debate. We commit to maintain an on-going dialogue with this Commission as they do their work, including clear objectives and outcomes. Should they complete their work in time for a called General Conference, then we will call a two- to three-day gathering before the 2020 General Conference. (We will consult with GCFA regarding cost-effective ways to hold that gathering.)
CONTINUING DISCUSSIONS We will continue to explore options to help the church live in grace with one another – including ways to avoid further complaints, trials and harm while we uphold the Discipline. We will continue our conversation on this matter and report our progress to you and to the whole church.
The Short Version
So the supported proposal has three points.
- The Bishops will populate a Special Commission to craft a completely novel version of The UMC’s statements on human sexuality, with the results presented either to a special session of General Conference in 2018/2019, or the 2020 General Conference in Minnesota.
- All votes on General Conference items related to human sexuality are deferred to this Special Commission’s consideration. This will be further debated as to which petitions this applies to, and will likely be resolved tomorrow morning.
- In the interim, Bishops will seek to find ways to not cause harm through disciplinary actions, held in tension with the call to uphold the Discipline. Prayers!
The history of special commissions
The first point’s creation of a Special Commission has a checkered history in United Methodism related to LGBTQ inclusion:
- The 1972 Uniting Conference Commission recommended that LGBTQ persons had an affirming statement of LGBTQ persons. However, the floor of GC1972 changed it to add “we find the practice of homosexuality incompatible with Christian teaching.”
- The 1976 GC did not pass a study commission on human sexuality.
- The 1980 GC approved a study document on human sexuality for the use by annual conferences. The report was ultimately published by Discipleship Ministries in 1983 as a guide for local use.
- The 1988 GC commissioned a Comprehensive Study of LGBT inclusion and the commission recommended removing all prohibitive language in the Discipline. The 1992 GC debated but did not pass it.
- The 2008 GC studied the topic of LGBT inclusion and the legislative committee recommended a compromise legislation. A minority report that retained the prohibitions passed (which means it was outside the discernment process by the committee).
As you can see, every single time United Methodists officially have studied human sexuality, they have recommended a more graceful polity that includes LGBTQ inclusion. And every time, the General conference has not allowed it.
Therefore, we come to this again for either a 2018 Special GC, or the 2020 GC. This time, things may be different given the social context of the day, the expanded powers to do a complete rewrite, and other aspects. Or it may be a similar situation where the body makes major changes and the General Conference votes it down. Time will tell.
What happens now?
Presumedly, if this survives the rest of GC and a possible legal challenge by folks opposed to any study of LGBTQ inclusion, here’s what would happen:
- Who: The Special Commission would be selected by the Council of Bishops in some fashion and begin meeting at some point after 2016 GC.
- What: They would rewrite entire sections of the Social Principles and Ministry qualifications and abilities, along with any other areas of the petitions referred to it by 2016 GC.
- Who decides:
- If it is a 2018/2019 special called session of General Conference, then it will be decided by the 2016 General Conference delegates, or their reserve replacements due to retirement or death.
- If it is a report to the 2020 General Conference, then they will be decided by the newly elected delegates to that body in 2018/2019 Annual Conference sessions.
Thoughts?
This is a very Methodist way of doing things: instead of winners and losers, the entire matter is referred to study…which may then result in winners and losers, but it will be determined over 2-3 years, not 10 days. There are a lot of moving pieces and considerations, but complicated methodical approaches to simple justice topics is what Methodists do best (or at least the most consistently).
This is the short version, and all is preliminary as things could change between now and Friday at 6:30 closing bell. But it’s a hopeful step towards change within United Methodism and its erroneous patchwork and not-at-all consistent ethic of human sexuality. May we become better than we are today.
Thoughts?
I’m not really a fan of this. Simply kicks the can down the road yet another few years. IMO, the GC should be acting NOW to allow the UMC in the USA to be empowered and free to do ministry effectively in our context here and now – and that means treating LGBTQI persons as full fellow children of God.
…and yet *another* entire high school class of students will go through their high school years without seeing a UMC that is gay-welcoming. We’ve lost this generation.
“We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was “well timed” in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word “Wait!” It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This “Wait” has almost always meant “Never.” We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.”
“We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy.” – Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King,
Roger, moving to vote on LGBTQ-related items would not have resulted in a gay-welcoming UMC today. It may have closed the door on a possible future gay-welcoming UMC. No one is thrilled, but this prevented a step in the wrong direction.
What’s needed is a forcing of the issue. I’m not afraid of schism. I’m afraid of doing nothing — which blesses the current unjust status quo. Our leaders need to be leading – not acting with cowardice.
You can’t be neutral on a moving train.
100% correct
Perhaps “leading” is what our leaders are doing, instead of just “going with the flow”. Being a Negro was never a sin. Homosexuality is a sin according to God’s Word, both Old & New Testament. Is not God’s Word considered the Truth? We are to love our brothers and sisters unconditionally. We will all stand before God, accountable for our actions. I don’t want to stand before my Father, looking away from His eyes and try to explain that I thought His Word was a little old fashioned.
Amen! Why are they trying to rewrite God’s word? I am tired of these “so called christians” wanting us true believers to adhere to their beliefs and lifestyles! The bible warns us of false teachers in the last days and we are being surrounded by them.
Now wait! You can’t cherry pick your sins! You can choose to eat shell fish or to divorce. You don’t choose to be gay or straight. So, be consistent. You can’t say one is inconsistent with Christianity and not the other. This is institutionalized bigotry hiding behind selective scripture while choosing to ignore other scripture.
A couple of problems with your argument, John, cheif of which is your assertion that gay people are “born that way,” (choose). You have zero evidence of that. There is no “gay gene.” It doesn’t exist. A person’s DNA will show their race, gender, hair color, eye color, even if they are pre-disposed to certaian diseases and much, much more. It is the Encyclopedia Britanica of..you. There is nothing that shows that a person is “born gay.” Again…NOTHING! It doesn’t exist. And to that end, may I ask a question? Why would God cause a person to be born gay (or transgender or whatever) AND THEN CONDEMN THEM FOR IT?????? Bueller? Bueller? Fact is, He wouldn’t.
Now to the issue of eating shell fish, etc., and picking and choosing. I would expect better exegesis. Look, whenever there was a change in the law (whichever aspect of the law), there is clear Scriptural evidence for doing so. Take your shell fish for example. When Peter had his vision of all the food coming down in the sheet and God said, “Take and eat,” Peter’s response was that he knows what is cklean and unclean. God said, “What I have called cklean, don’t you call unclean.” Of course this also has to do with taking the Gospel to the Gentiles, but there are dietary implications as well. To show this, remember that Jesus said, “It isn’t what enters the mouth that makes a man unclean, it is what comes out of the heart.”
Next I would ask why we don’t sacrifice anumals any more? Because there is clear Scriptueral evidence that we don’t have to. Hebrews: Jesus is our perfect sacrifice, died once and for all. We no longer need the blood of bulls and goats. Again, clear Scriptural evidence fior a change in the Law.
How about why we worship on Sunday instead of Saturday? Didn’t paul say, “Let no man judge you with regard to Sabbath days?” YES! Didn’t the early church begin to worship on Sunday and the admonition to gather on the first day of the week and bribngs our tithes into the storehouse? Didn’t Paul preach…. on Sunday??? YES! Again, clear Scriptural evidence for a change.
Some will say that Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. WRONG!! Remember, jesus is The Word, and Jesus IS GOD!! So the words in black in the Old Testament are just as much the words of Jesus as are the words in red in the New. And I challenge anyone tiot show me a change in the Law prohivbiting homosexuality. You can’t because it isn’t there. There was no change. Paul even affirmed this.
Does this mean that gays aren’t welcome into the church? Of course they are. But you can’t say that sin is not sin. Remember this: if I offend man to please God, that is man’s problem. But if I offend God to please man, that is MY problem. Welcome anyone into the church, but you can’t put a smiley face on sin.
We are to use Scripture, Reason, Tradition and Experience in making decision in the UMC. We are also to first, DO NOT HARM. The current policy does great harm. You say it is a simple matter, Glenna Jones. It is not. My reading of the Bible is not literal. I believe there is great truth there–but it was also written with the filter of the cultural and societal dictates of that time. We have decided as a group that much of the dietary laws, etc., of the Old Testament were cultural. Yet, because if fits our own discriminatory biases, we have decided that the dictate on homosexuality is supposed to last for all of time. This makes very little sense. We have FINALLY changed our ideas on many subjects, including slavery and the treatment of women (which many would say was okay in biblical standards), marriage itself has changed from Genesis to the modern day. Why is this one issue the only thing that is not changeable? It just makes very little sense.
Christians are not under Mosaic Law as Jesus said. So your arguments about why we do not follow certain Old Testament concepts are not accurate. 1 Peter and Ephesians 5 provide God’s expectations for the responsibility and respective role of a man and woman in marriage. If God approves of homosexual marriage, where are the Biblical passages providing God’s expectations for the role of each individual in that relationship? The Bible states in those sections that the husband is to be the spiritual leader of the household. So who plays that role in a homosexual marriage? You cannot say both because when more than one person is held accountable for a function then no one is accountable. God is very big on one-on-one accountability.
I would certainly agree with Glenna.
I lost my son do to a UMC youth leader who confirmed him to hell and prayed for that he would recover. This is the tim to accept everyone without prejudice just as Christ did.
I am sorry to hear that, Beckie..
The Bishops want to quote words other than Jesus’s own? Well how about “be ye Hot or be ye Cold, but be not Lukewarm” How many people will the UMC turn away from Jesus? How many people will we hurt, have we hurt? “Open Hearts. Open Minds. Open Doors.” was and still is a Lie! Some of us really believed that the UMC meant it, but we were wrong!
Now they have a chance to make things right, to show the kind of love that Jesus taught, but instead the will wash their hands of it and let a Commission come up with a list of suggestions and then as they have done many times before they will vote against the Commission suggestions.
If the UMC is not willing to take up this Cross and bare it proudly, then the people that make up the Churches, those who want to face the World with Integrity should walk away from those that want to exclude others.
Jesus said “the Kingdom of God is at hand” , and if we have the faith to step out and show the world what the unconditional love of Jesus looks like, then like Paul said, “they will know we are Christians by our love”.
I am so disappointed. As the blog says, the GC has been studying this since 1976. I think there has been enough study and the time for action is now. The UMC needs to change and be as inclusive as their rhetoric (Open Hearts. Open Minds. Open Doors.) They could have allowed individual churches in the United States to make their own decisions on the subject, like they do with whether to allow a divorced pastor to lead a church. Jesus said much more on divorce (don’t do it) then he ever said about LGBT people (not one thing!) In my mind there should not be any question on what the UMC should do, if we say we follow Jesus.
A church has no say now whether to accept a divorce pastor. The question never comes up. At least in Texas.
I’m in agreement with you. This has been studied to death for to many years now. I bet you not a thing will change until it’s too late.
I agree with you. They have had plenty of time to think about this issue. Now we wait another few years to try again. Not acceptable. Jesus loves all.
But Jesus also condemned certain kinds of behavior such as homosexuality.
Jesus didn’t say a word about homosexuality.
Jesus is God and the Bible is God’s Word. And there are plenty of passages condemning homosexual behavior. The Bible is therefore also the Word of Jesus.
What are the ways this decision could be undone in the next 48 hours?
A delegate who voted FOR the petition can ask that it be reconsidered.
I think this commission can also recommend an amicable or not so amicable separation
The Judicial Council will be very different. There may be some important decisions from them over the next two years that could change the Disciplinary landscape. Also, there are four more years for social media and education and research into the full nature of human sexuality which may change the political landscape . . . in Africa and Asia . . . just as the last four years have changed America.
God does not change – so when someone says he has, I must disagree. Also, unity must sometimes sadly yield to Godly separation even with the dearest of loved ones – and we each must know when to draw that difficult line in the sand. As Jesus said, he did not come to bring peace, but division (Luke 12:51)
God is change. Read Genesis
Gods Word does not change. It is so hard for people to bear the cross when God has said NO. It’s always hard to hear our Father say no but He knows best and we need to let HIM lead.
God does not change, but our understanding of God evolves with our understanding of science and humanity.
As C.S. Lewis pointed out if you really believed that people were practicing witchcraft in Salem it would have made perfect sense to kill them. We are better today not because we are moral but because we have made more knowledge and understanding.
Slavery, misogyny, racism, geocentrism, persecution of left handed people etc have all evolved not because God changed but because we drew closer to the unchanging law of love!
I respectfully disagree with your statement that God does not change. If you mean His character does not change (love, inclusion, care for the oppressed) then I’m OK with it. He certainly changed His mind several times in our scripture.
Thanks for the consideration….
If, as you say, God does not change, which I understand you to mean that the current language should stand, then why do we allow persons who have divorced and remarried to serve as pastors and even bishops? Or, for that matter, members? Jesus said nothing about homosexuality (nor did Paul or the Hebrew Scriptures since the concept didn’t exist until the 1830s), but our Lord was very explicit about how God feels about divorce and remarriage, that, in fact, those who do so are actively committing adultery. I don’t believe that anything in scripture refers to sexual orientation, let alone transgender issues, and that every incident referred to in the Bible regarding same gender sexual behavior is either condemning pagan worship practices or the exploitation of one person by another or by a group. Now you may accuse me of simply jfinding excuses to justify what you see as an explicit prohibition against an abominable act, but how and why do we not then exclude the divorced and remarried, since that word of condemnation comes directly from Jesus? Perhaps you would exclude such folks, and I am unjustly implying that you are inconsistent, but the Discipline IS inconsistent. I would appreciate a rational explanation for why one is more damnable than the other.
God does not change, you are correct. However, I believe our understand of God can change a great deal over time. To say otherwise, is to simplify something that is complex.
Only one comment. A called session will be the current delegates. Retirement does not disqualify a delegate. I assume you were referring to clergy, since many lay delegates are in retirement. But, yes, death would be a disquallifer!
Would the delegations change if someone’s status was to change? I have my own issues around allowing current candidates for ministry to run as lay people, but I know there are several “lay” delegates who are planning on being commissioned or licensed as lay pastors. Would they then surrender their spot as a lay delegate, David?
Your status at the time of your election is what counts is my understanding.
I had to look this up, but paragraph 13 of the BOD says that ” special session of the General Conference shall be composed of the delegates to the preceding General Conference or their lawful successors, except that when a particular annual conference or missionary conference shall prefer to have a new election it may do so.” Meaning that the annual conference could elect a new slate of candidates to represent them; it is not that the current delegates have to go.
Yet another disfunction plea to stay together by the abusive church that allows suffering to continue while trying not to offend the theological bullies who inflict harm on those who love their church. How dare they dangle hope like a carrot to a starving horse when history shows that carrot will be out of reach for years longer.
The Methodist book of discipline should be the bible and the bible is very clear on homosexuality.
I wholly agree with the sentiment that this merely kicks the can down the road. Meanwhile our congregations are either leaving in droves if they are younger and more accepting and welcoming, or dying off as they age and cling to “the way we’ve always done it.” We need to take harder looks at what being openly affirming really means as children and followers of Christ. We can no longer keep the Orwellian premise of “All animals are created equal. But some are more equal than others.” God have mercy, Lord have mercy and deliver us.
I agree. Decide it now. Just as many are leaving because they feel that our discipline is not being upheld. A schism would be unfortunate, but not the end of the world. At least people would know where they – and our church – stand and go on with life accordingly.
I absolutely applaud the work done today. This is a dramatic shift in seeking the Council of Bishops’ voice and action in the direction of the church. Moving to vote on LGBTQ-related items today would have been disastrously painful for those seeking full inclusion. The environment was toxic for that. Some are skeptical that much will change in 2 years, however, having the bishops at work, creating the commission, and (hopefully) speaking with constituents will prepare the delegates for a more faithful and grace-filled way forward. Thank you bishops and thank you delegates!
I’m looking at this with cautious optimism. I don’t believe the COB has ever given the direction to revise the BOD and remove the hurtful language before. Plus, perhaps I’m too hopeful when I see this commission and two years as an EXPANDED rule 44? Can this two years not be two years of small groups, with holy discussions, teaching, and compassionate listening with respectful conversation? IF the commitment to do this without leaving room for hate speech, can’t God work wonders? Others said cutting Malaria deaths in half in such a short time was IMPOSSIBLE. But, we as one body said “watch this,” and made it happen with God’s help. Instead of saying it’s not going to work before it even gets started, let’s commit to doing our part to making it work. Self fulfilling prophecies…they can work both ways. If you say we can’t and don’t try, I guesstill you can at least be comforted in knowing you were right.
As I read this I have Roman’s 5: 3-5 come to mind. “We also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance produces character; and character produces hope.”
I pray that all of our sufferings have produced the required perseverance or endurance to focus on God’s resolution and not a preconceived human response. May our leaders be given the character to act as God wills them and not fall victim to Satan’s treachery. And may we all be filled with the hope that brings us closer to God, closer to the teachings of Jesus, filling us with the Spirit so that we can bring God’s Kingdom into view!
I think your reply touches my heart and s very in tune with God’s will. Thank you Russell Rhodes.
The commission formed by the bishops should exam God’s Word. It has all the information we need regarding human sexuality. Anything that does not agree with or changes God’s definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman is wrong and sinful. God’s Word should be our sole and final authority.
Its not that black and white. Translation of a translation substitute words that were not in the original text. If its all there and to be taken at face value, think again. There are many things spoken of in the bible that outside of culture and content we no longer pratice. So much emphasis is placed on a few of these passages, none by Jesus himself. Yet, we ignore where Christ tells us he is the fullfillment of the law, and the NEW law to love God and to love others as ourselfs. I strongly suggest before you decide that the only thing we need to read is the bible, understand the bible, its context ,culture and the people that translated it and the times in which that happened. Try stepping out and really searching. Read God and the Gay Christian by Mattew Vines or Walking the Bridgeless Canyon by Kathy Baldock. Then with open eyes and the open heart we profess to have look again at the words in your bible.
It is not “her” Bible. It is OUR Bible.
The Bible clearly condemns homosexual practice. Remember homosexual practices led to one of the greatest causes of death worldwide – AIDS and people are still dying from that disease because of their sexual behavior.
Eating monkeys caused AIDS. Lack of access to health care perpetuates the epidemic.
Shame and judgement about sex actually WORSEN the epidemic, because they make it less likely people will get tested, practice safer behaviors, or seek treatment.
Please, please, please, please, stop repeating this belief in the cause of AIDS. Please visit the CDC Web pages, AIDS. vu and other Reliable sources. We have to stop this disease, and we will have to work together to do it.
Sorry but homosexual practices, particularly by males, have spreads HIV like wildfire. In spite of all of our knowledge, homosexual practices are still causing HIV around the world. Check Mayo Clinic web pages for the cause and spread of HIV – it is sexual.
This is the first posted comment with which I can agree. It seems that progressives and liberals want to do anything they can to avoid a vote by the GC knowing full well that the GC will not approve the changes to the BOD, but rather a strengthening of consequences for violating it.
They continue to kick the can down the street, in hopes that social influences will continue to degrade theological orthodoxy and a biblical worldview, resulting in a church that gives grace to everyone, and redemption to no one. Rather than being a church of salt and light, it appears the UMC is destined to become a church of rainbows and darkness. Resulting in a declining church styled after the Episcopal Church in the PCUSA. John Wesley would be ashamed. We have turned the church’s focus on grace into a license to sin, exactly the kind of mis-application that Paul addressed directly.
Really? And which definition would that be? Abraham and Sarah who were half-siblings? Jacob with his 2 wives and many concubines? You would want to return to a levitical definition of marriage and become the property of your husband? Even Chrisians (men not women) in Paul’s era sometimes had more than one spouse though Paul excluded them from leadership in the church. So do we allow men to divorce their wives as the Law of Moses specified or are all persons who divorce and remarry guilty of adultery as Jesus taught? Just which biblical definition would you adopt?
Christians are not under Mosaic Law so your comments are not very valid.
No winners or losers? I imagine there are many LGBTQ persons who might disagree with that statement.
Amen!
Today’s action is a pleasant surprise considering the rejection of Rule 44. Bishops offered meaningful compromise to all parties. Now the real challenge will be the composition of the Commission. Yes there is hope for a revitalized UMC to emerge for the American conferences.
I’ve read various comments (here and elsewhere) calling the CoB’s statement, “kicking the can down the road.”
Bishop Ough said:
“We accept our role as spiritual leaders to lead the UMC in a ‘pause for prayer’ – to step back from attempts at legislative solutions and to intentionally seek God’s will for the future.”
Do those who see this as a simple delay tactic really believe that taking time for prayer is simply “kicking the can”? We MUST take the time to pray, since no reasonable solution could be found by delegates who are primarily reacting to strong emotional outbursts rather than acting in wisdom.
God’s will, not that of humans nor our society, be done.
Randy,
I am one of the people who used the “kick the can” phrase on Twitter. However, it was in relationship to the overall situation and not in direct reference to prayer or Bishop Ough’s statement. I agree with your call for taking time for prayer but I think much of your argument about “kicking the can” may be more of a “straw man” argument in this case.
Additionally, when I think about all the work that annual conferences and people put into presenting legislative petitions and the time that our denomination has already put into these issues it seems unfair to reduce it all to your accusation that:
“…no reasonable solution could be found by delegates who are primarily reacting to strong emotional outbursts rather than acting in wisdom.”
I feel that your statement may be an over simplified assessment that does not really do justice to the many dedicated delegates who have taken the time to serve God in this process. I will be praying that we (our church and leaders) use the time more effectively than we have in the past so that reconciliation and healing may take place for the good of God’s kingdom and glory. Peace.
When each of the special commissions has ended with the “affirming” and “full inclusion” statements voted down by GC, what makes anyone think this special commission will end any differently? It’s a pipe dream at best.
I’m personally saddened by the way this is being handled by the UMC. The argument is that the church needs more time to consider this issue. Really? Will the church be relevant to this century, before the next century begins? I agree that the church is afraid of facing the issue head on because of the potential of no longer being “United” Methodists. Perhaps the concern should be for the countless LGBTQI persons who will be unable to bring their full selves to the church as the debate continues. If division is the price to pay for being welcoming and standing with those on the margins, then let this unwelcoming unity end. There’s a false sense of peace and progress by these actions. It’s delaying the inevitable and another generation of LGBTQI will be left wondering if this church is a welcoming home for them. As a seeker, I wonder if the UMC is a welcoming home for me, and I’m not LGBTQI, but I won’t be part of a community that practices exclusion for the sake of unity. I had plenty of that in the fundamentalist sectarian church I was raised in.
I was hungry, naked, homeless and you formed a committee? Whatever you have done to least of these you have done to me. See Matthew 25:40.
Yes. It has been almost half a century that we have been dealing with this.
I used to be proud that the UMC could have both progressives and traditionalists and call themselves United Methodist. I now see it as an identity crisis that has mired the church for entirely too long and it is toxic. People of both interpretations bludgeon each other in the name of God, while we have a group of brothers and sisters who is not fully included.
I was actually hoping that the church would split, because, like an irreconcilable marriage, after it ends, both can heal and concentrate on bringing about God’s will, according to the way each sees fit.
It would be great if the whole delegation had a moment of clarity and we truly became inclusive, but really, how much longer?
I can’t speak for why other people have left the UMC, where only a portion of churches truly practice “Open Hearts, Open Minds, Open Doors.” I’m considering leaving and finding a church where there is no longer a crisis of doctrine- where I have a much better idea of what to expect before I even walk through the doors.
I had been considering the UMC because I thought it would be a good middle ground for my fiancée and I. After this turn of events I’m thinking I will be looking elsewhere like the PCUSA, UCC or the Episcopal Church.
The UMC was a great place for me when I left the denomination I was raised in because of the toxic faith that promoted. I’m not sure how much different the UMC is now that they continue to exclude a significant portion of people because of sexual orientation or gender identification.
Homosexuals compose 3% of the population not a “significant number of people”.
Other estimates are 10%. Regardless, 3% of 7 billion is 210 million. This number equates over half of the population of the United States as of 2015. I would say that’s pretty significant. http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-populous-countries.html
Is the significance of a person determined by what percentage of the general population they make? Or is it because they are made in the image of God
Seems an awful lot like South Dakota Governor Duagaards assigning a special commission to study higher pay for teachers in our state…and South Dakotans who care about THAT topic know how far it went: nowhere.
Boy I am glad to be done with this mess.
I do hope that the new commission will include in its considerations the issues of restructuring geographically and administratively. I am convinced that the only way we can agree to disagree is to reorganize ourselves into something like Central Conferences, each of which has the ability to adjust our global Book of Discipline to relevance in its own context. Unfortunately for “unity”, there seem to be many who simply refuse to agree to disagree…
I believe this is a last straw. Nothing would have passed here. It would have caused more pain with each petition voted down.
I pray that the study happens and concludes with a special call session (with these delegates)- and that we find a way forward to be united on mission and ministry- even if that means a divided family on issues of human sexuality.
In my opinion, this cannot be on hold until 2020.
I agree with Erin and am so disappointed in the UMC. I miss the Open Hearts, Open Minds, Open Doors—that is no longer the UMC.
Wow, the devil is laughing his head off now. Instead of standing upon the Word of God and His already declaring that homosexuality is an abomination (as well as ALL sin is sin), the UMC is now standing upon the “Word of the World,” and that anything goes. Well, God is not the author of confusion, but there sure is a lot of confusion at the GC this year because they are not following God’s Word. People say that God is a God of love and that He wouldn’t send anybody to hell. That is true, God is a God of love. But, God is a holy God, and He cannot be in the presence of sin. He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die and take all of our sins and punishment upon Himself, IF we confess our sins and repent of our sins (letting the power of the Holy Spirit that comes to live in us when we accept Christ as our Savior help us to over come all sin that tempt us). Therefore, God does not send us to hell, but we ourselves send ourselves to hell if we do not repent and change our ways that are not following God’s ways as told to us in HIS WORD (the Holy Bible). It is like the UMC is now trying to tell God how things should be rather than letting God (who created us and paid the penalty for our sins) come into our lives and truly help us to truly become who He created us to be.
My heart truly aches over all of this. The devil has so many of our leaders “blinded” to God’s Word, and we have so many false teachers, false prophets, and false leaders that are leading God’s creation to a path of damnation. Yes, we love the homosexuals, as well as ALL sinners. I thank God that He opened my eyes, opened my ears, opened my heart to see what a sinner I was and am, and that I confessed my sins, and have repented of them. I still sin, but thank God, He gives me the power through the Holy Spirit that lives in me, to over come and fight against the temptations and wiles of the devil. The church is suppose to help people and hold people accountable for their sins so they can see where they are going in the wrong direction, and then with the church’s open arms, open hearts and open doors, help them to get on the path that leads to life eternal with God, not to continue in their life of sin.
I just pray that the leaders of the UMC will have some backbone and stand up for God’s Word and not for “Satan” and “his word.” Put an end to this confusion and stand up for God and His Word.
I have been a member of the UMC for 38 years, but I don’t know how much longer that will be.
It’s interesting to me that you know so much about the devil is currently doing while at the same claiming to know what God wants from the church. Are you sure about the reliability of your sources?
If you read God’s Word, you will see that even Jesus was tempted by the devil. The devil is real whether you want to believe it or not. There is real spiritual warfare going on around us all the time. Please read your Bible to find out what God wants from us and from the church.
Why are you not denouncing divorce this way? Certainly, the bible had much more to say about that – even Jesus, himself was opposed to it. Yet there are many more people who marry and divorce than who are gay. Jesus, himself, said those who remarry are committing adultery. Yet this is perfectly all right – it happens all the time. Nobody condemns the divorced – they can fully participate in worship, marriage and even church leadership.
Maybe the reason is because we might be divorced ourselves, or people we know and love are divorced. It is much easier to exclude those who are “different” because it is easy to assume they are this way because they want to be.
Do you think people really would choose to live this way, knowing they are excluded and ostracized?
If this is a choice, then you also made a choice to partner with someone of the opposite gender, with the understanding that you might have chosen the other way had your faith not been so strong? This is what your reasoning implies.
Jesus hung out with the broken hearted, not those who followed the law perfectly. Those were the Sadducees and Pharisees.
Jesus also told those he hung out with to go and sin no more. He CHANGED their lives.
And yet, we have no idea what happened with those people afterward, do we? I’m fairly certain that every day of the rest of their lives, they sinned in some way. Jesus didn’t tell the woman caught in adultery not to commit adultery anymore, he said go and sin no more. That’s a tall order that not a single human can live up to – yet it was what he asked of her and us. Remember, he also said we should not judge others. I’m pretty sure God can take care of that without human interference.
Beyond that, Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, so from his lips (and he is the one who brought the new covenant, not any of his disciples) there is no condemnation.
Lastly, to quote another, when I go before God, I would rather have to justify why I included someone rather than excluded someone.
Thank you for stating so clearly that we are ALL sinners saved by Grace and that we are to love ALL people just as Jesus did. That is not a license to continue in sin! But, just as Jesus and Paul said, we are to recognize what sin is in our life and REPENT. We can not just continue on doing the sin. Oh yes, He continues to love us, but we will pay the consequences of sin in our life. He wants us to be restored to a right relationship with Himself, not agreeing with “the world”, but holding true to His Holy Word, The Bible. Thank you again for boldly holding to God’s Truth!
AMEN, Brother Orr!
Can USA members and clergy read the numerical reality. The USA UMC is numerically declining rapidly – membership and worship attendance and $$$. The AC that are the slowest in decline are the more conservative SE juridiction AC. Africa is exploding in membership. This GC coalition of African and conservative USA delegates have carried every significant vote except the Bishops recommendation. If any legislation on the UMC understanding of human sexuality is delayed until 2020 then likely that 50% of delegates will be African. Very clear that they will hold the line on current BoD language or make it more unacceptable for those that believe in full inclusion of LGBTQ persons. The whole tenor of this GC has been to call the church to a more traditional view of the Church. 58% of delegates voted to establish term limits for Bishops. Why? Is it mistrust of current leaderships unwillingness to uphold the Discipline with integrity? Is the true way forward to separate amiacably to allow the current 3 versions of the UMC – traditional/evangelical, centrist, and progressive to be free as new denominations free from the limitations of the others?
I’m probably going to leave because if the lack of inclusion.
Let’s stop our constant mention of ‘kick the can’ and pick up the can and become aware of who’s invited to the game and who’s getting kicked. Blatant discrimination and contradictory, sugar-coated words in our BOD cannot be left in permanent ink. So get your erasers out and keep your awareness sharp as this commission is appointed and gathers to change the church. I’m thankful to Jeremy and others who so eloquently stay aware and tell the truth.
God’s Punishment for Sodom & Gomorrah – Genesis 19:24 & 25! Do WE want to risk God’s anger?
Homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God!
References: (there are MANY more!)
Leviticus 18:22,
1 Timothy 1:9-10,
Deuteronomy 22:5,
1 Corinthians 6:9-11,
Leviticus 20:13,
Romans 1:26-27,
1 Corinthians 6:9,
Galatians 6:7
LOVE the SINNER, but HATE the SIN!
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.
John 8:7
Par for the course. It is the responsibility of leaders to lead, not kick the can down the road. Earlier this week the left complained when their hope in Rule was ended by the GC voting it down. Now everyone is supposed to trust a deliberation and decision by a group heavily weighted with liberals. It fails any logical explanation except that having failed to win in the pews, the left now seeks to win with a packed committee. Par for the course. That’s all. Par for the course.
It seems this is but one additional step on the road of “analysis paralysis.” But it does buy more time to re-study the re-study of the original study. “Open hearts” and “open minds” are facing the door which has yet to open with regard to this subject. Perhaps it may never open, but it won’t be because multitudes are not sanding before it ~ ~ knocking.
These are troubling times for the church. We must welcome all believers, remembering Jesus said,”Come to me”. In the same light, he told the adulterer, the woman at the well,”Go and sin no more.” We are sinners. We need to ask for Gods forgiveness and pray he will lead his church to know what is best. We shouldn’t judge but we should obey God. The Bible is holding the answers, let’s not diminish the word. Embrace it. Learn from the teachings. I know I am not an important voice in this debate but I hope my voice will be heard amongst all the other voices. I love my church. I want it to flourish.
Amen, Sister Barnett! We MUST welcome all believers, AND all NON believers! We cannot forgive sins, as Jesus did for the woman at the well, but we CAN help to lead them to Jesus! Yes, each and every Believer needs God’s forgiveness anew EVERY day.
God HAS provided ALL the leadership we need to carry the Church on into the future, until Jesus returns! That leadership is on EVERY page and in EVERY word of the Holy Bible! It is up to ALL us preachers to PREACH God’s Word! We’re NOT to suger-coat it, we’re supposed to GIVE it just like He GAVE it to US! If we PREACH the Bible, we do God’s work, If we do NOT preach the Bible, we FAIL every one that hears us! God Bless!
Open doors, open hearts and open minds was a advertising campaign. I don’t think any committee in the General Conference approved that.. know the history of this slogan. Sounds like we may go back to three churches as before.the merger. Methodist, United Brethren and Evangelical Church. May be a better course of action. I doubt if both sides will be able to compromise their positions.
Jesus was loving and compassionate to all he met, except the the very judgmental Pharisees. Are we the representatives of Jesus? Or do we represent the Pharisees? How will people learn of the love of our Savior if we shut the door in their faces? Since all humans are sinners, do we dare to slam the door on anyone? I want people to know United Methodists “by our love.”
I, for one, have NEVER suggested slamming the door on the LGBTs. I have ONLY suggested that we MUST NOT allow them in positions of leadership (as it says in the Discipline), but we SHOULD welcome them to worship with us and hear God’s word, Including,
God’s Punishment for Sodom & Gomorrah – Genesis 19:24 & 25! Do WE want to risk God’s anger?
Homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God!
References: (there are MANY more!)
Leviticus 18:22,
1 Timothy 1:9-10,
Deuteronomy 22:5,
1 Corinthians 6:9-11,
Leviticus 20:13,
Romans 1:26-27,
1 Corinthians 6:9,
Galatians 6:7
These are ALL God’s Word! If there is a Preacher AFRAID to preach them, HE needs to get right with God!
James R. Harvey have you read the Sodom and Gomorrah story carefully and then actually thought about it? Did you notice that when the two disguised angels came to stay with Lot and the crowd of men demanded that Lot give them the angels to rape, Lot said, repeatedly, “Take my virgin daughters instead!” Why does everyone talk about the threat of male gang rape in the story and not the sinful parenting? What kind of father is Lot to offer his young daughters to the gang of men? Am I to take this story as God’s word? Later in the story, God rewards Lot for protecting the angels by allowing Lot and his family to escape the destruction of the cities. Sorry, James R., but this story reeks of misogyny. Like so many Bible stories, the only way I can use it is in historical context. If I read it literally as God’s unchanging word, what kind of parent would I be?? Don’t serve up this story as God’s word on homosexual couples unless you are willing to claim it as God’s word on parenting daughters, too!
Martin Luther King’s “Letter from a Birmingham Jail” comes to mind. After hearing from Southern pastors in many denominations, including Methodists, that he should be patient and wait, he responded in this letter that the Negro people had waited long enough. Now was the time for action, the time to take a stand. While I applaud the Bishops’ intentions, I think they should re read Dr. King’s letter.
I don’t think Dr. King was referring to the LGBT community!
I have heard no love in any of your posts.
I reread Dr King’s Letter today. I too found many parallels between it and this situation.
The world knows the United Methodist Church as a body of Christians who follow the Bible and back up their doctrine with Bibilical Scripture, printed in the Book of Discipline for all the world to read. The UMC should not bow to pressure based on emotional argument, and it is this consistent “Biblical standard” that the LGBT find attractive. So why do they want the UMC to change? There are plenty of non-denominational congregations whose doctrinal stances are less open to view. And conversely, there are plenty of churches which look more like the world than The Church. A line has been drawn to show the Way. God will preserve The Church.
I hope and pray you are right, Mary! But, when a Conference appoints an openly GAY man to a position of leadership in DEFIANCE of the Book of Discipline, I have a REAL problem with our leadership! This has been going on for many years, and the LGBT people will NOT stop until we (as a General Conference) give in to them OR tell them a flat NO, and remove them from fellowship. SO, the real question is, who do we obey, God or the LGBT community? God Help Us!
A line has been drawn. The question is will the UMC stand on the side of love and the right side of history, will it stand with inaction because its fear of schism, or will it no longer stand at all because it has become irrelevant to the world that it is meant to be serving.
I am not opposed to worshipping with anyone and welcome anyone to come to Jesus. However, I also believe the scriptures refer to these lifestyles as an abomination. Many sexual sinners sit in our pews every week, but I would not like to have an adulterer teaching my child or grandchild that what they do or did is OK. We all have choices in our lives and these people have made their choices which obviously disregard the instructions of God’s word. Not one of us can claim we are sinless, but repentenance is what is needed for all of us. I believe that the Churches have trended toward leaving repentance out of our covenant with God and depend totally on forgiveness. We are supposed to “CHANGE”.
I am WITH you, Sheila! Jesus taught us to LOVE the sinner but to HATE the sin! I love the opportunity to testify to a homosexual person, BUT like you, I do not want a homosexual to teach my children, grand children, or great grand children that their lifestyle is OK. Yes, I am an OLD-timer! 🙂
I’m sorry but I’m having trouble finding the passage where Jesus said, “Love the sinner, hate the sin.” Where exactly is that passage?
It dates back to Augustine of Hippo: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo and also misattributed to Mahatma Ghandi: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi
Oh you mean that Jesus never said that? Just like Jesus never said anything about homosexuality?
A divorced and remarried person is an adulterer.
I am Pastor Jim, a retired Lay Pastor from the Shawnee Valley District of the West Ohio Conference of the United Methodist Church, now retired in Central Florida and waiting on the Lord to call me to service here. During my time in the Shawnee Valley, the controversy of human sexuality was CONSTANT throughout the 7 years I spent as a Pastor of our small Church. When the West Ohio Conference appointed an openly gay man as our Treasurer, they LOST a LOT of members in Southeast Ohio, many from just moving to other churches, but most from churches leaving the Methodist Conference! I have many pastor friends that led their churches to leave Methodism. They was discussion in our church about leaving, and I told our congregation that if it were their wish, I would also lead them into disassociation with the Conference. In the end (as it came up yearly), they decided to “stick it out for a while” hoping things would improve.
When the openly gay man was appointed Treasurer of the Ohio West Conference, I knew that MY days with Methodism were numbered! I have prayed and studied and fasted about this matter for years, and I am ashamed now to tell anyone I was (well, still am) a Methodist. My wife and I still LOVE our Church Family back in Ohio, but we still have a HUGE problem with a church that allows GBLT people into positions of leadership! I am NOT trying to segregate myself from them. I have a Lesbian and a Gay in my own family! I love them BOTH, but hate their sin. I believe THAT is what Jesus taught us – LOVE the sinner but HATE the sin!
When I am questioned about my beliefs (concerning homosexuality), I reply with this…..
God’s Punishment for Sodom & Gomorrah – Genesis 19:24 & 25! Do WE want to risk God’s anger?
Homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God!
References: (there are MANY more!)
Leviticus 18:22,
1 Timothy 1:9-10,
Deuteronomy 22:5,
1 Corinthians 6:9-11,
Leviticus 20:13,
Romans 1:26-27,
1 Corinthians 6:9,
Galatians 6:7
Ezekiel says this about the sin for which Sodom was punished by God:
This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. (Ezekiel 16:49)
Do we want to risk God’s anger? No? Then why are the poor and needy going unaided?
As fascinating as this conversation is and I’m sure it will continue to be. One thing seems quite clear to me from this. The UMC is not welcoming to a seeker like myself who is trying to find a place where the gospel is preached and the commandments of love of God and love of neighbor is given primacy. If this is what being a Christian is also about, then I will gladly keep looking for a spiritual home. I was raised in a church that promoted intolerance and hate all in the name of being true to the Bible. If this is what you have to offer me, an outsider who is searching, then I can only say thanks, but no thanks I’ve lived with more intolerance for multiple lifetimes, and I was once one who promoted it. However, the gospel that Jesus preached about the present and not yet here Reign of God, saved me from that life. The question for me is then where is that Gospel preached or has it been lost in a focus on hating the sins while claiming to love the sinner.
I agree with William. It is time for change NOW. I am almost 80 and in a Sunday School class of 60-90 year olds who agree that LGBTs should be fully accepted as members of the Methodist Church. We have lost too many ministers and too many others because of judgmental and hypocritical actions. Almost everyone I know has at least one friend or family member affected by this. It isn’t just the “young people” who see this as discrimination. There are many “old people” who feel this way too. Face the facts–we are already divided and no amount of “study” is going to change the facts. We are probably losing more people than we realize. I joined the Methodist Church over 15 years ago and am in charge of a mission group, but I am seriously considering going back to the Episcopal Church.
With all the flight from Seven Sister churches — including the UMC, of which I’m a member – what are these folks THINKING? I can’t imagine Jesus doing ‘litmus tests’ on human-ness or worthiness. The greatest commandment is still love God and love your neighbor as yourself.
Being less inclusive does not serve the greatest commandment, nor does it nurture growth of the denomination.
RE: special commission: Does anyone remember the children’s cartoon, “Babar”, one of my (now adult) kids’ favorites many years ago? There’s a very funny piece called the “Committee Song” in there – look it up and listen. It may very well be a soundtrack for this. Peace!
I cannot believe that the UMC is spending so much time on an issue that affects 3% of the population. Why not spend the majority of time on significant issues where there are real needs that affect so many more people like helping single mothers who are in so much need of assistance when there are absent fathers or addressing sickness and disease in many countries around the world where there is so much suffering? The UMC has lost its focus and wastes so much time on addressing one issue instead of addressing real needs in this world that affect millions rather than a small minority. Drought is causing massive starvation in countries like Ethiopia yet Methodists sit around debating LGBT issues while these folks starve. What a hypocritical approach (only could happen in privileged America).
Three percent of the world population is 2/3 of the U.S. population. That’s pretty significant. http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-populous-countries.html
Ok…I grew up Methodist. I no longer attend a Methodist church due to denominational churches having such blurred views over scripture and legalistic items. I attend a non-denomination church and its stance on this very issue is very clear. You can not throw the Old Testament laws up as a defense to be in favor of this. Jesus changed things forever. Is homosexuality a sin? Yes I believe it is. Should people of this choosing be condemned. Nope not by us. They should hear the truth and be prayed for and treated with love and kindness. Look I sin every day. The difference is I admit it and try to change those things and do better. I don’t go around trying to convince the world that my sins should no longer be considered sins because that makes me feel bad. It’s called conviction and yes even Jesus made people feel conviction. He was love, but He also spoke the truth. You can love someone and not approve of their lifestyle. We are seeing an ever increasing trend in churches that is claiming that Christ’s love means their is no sin and that if something makes you happy that is must be Godly. False false false. We are called to be different. To not be part of what is trendy…even if that mean taking the unpopular stance. Quit trying to change God’s word and work on spreading it!
I was at GC in 1972. As each GC since has passed, I have been saddened by the hostility displayed towards others who are LGBT. As the daughter of a longtime United Methodist minister, I grew up in a Methodist church that was a living example of the social gospel, social justice, and loving kindness. It is not my place to judge, bar, restrict any of my fellow humans. It is my place to follow the teachings of Jesus and to love my neighbors, ALL of my neighbors, as myself.
I also follow John Wesley’s example to, “Do all the good you can. By all the means you can. In all the ways you can. At all the times you can. To all the people you can. As long as you can.”
Beautifully stated.
Homosexuality is not mentioned in the Bible. Homosexual sex is. Homosexuality has always existed because of not reproduce and will always be considered an abnormality just as prostitution will always be considered abnormal.
.
. . . . Homosexual rape was once done by soldiers to punish the enemy as well as heterosexual rapes. The prohibitions of homosexual sex mentioned in the Bible and listed over-and-over in comments considered homosexual sex for the normally heterosexual person.
.
. . . . Homosexual sex is possible for every person and is a steady percentage of the population. The climate of rejecting this clear abnormality will not change over time. Homosexuals simply needed time to realize Methodist leadership positions are impossible; -forever. The Bishops are giving them a few years to accept this or plan a split of the Methodist denomination.
The Word of God is the will of God lest misguided bishops deign to get in God’s way
The line Joshua drew in the sand is STILL there–where God calls the faithful will stay !!!