Does it take young people to reach young people?
A friend on Facebook was looking at job opportunities to share her church skills and experience. She happened upon an exciting posting for a church planting job for Urban Village Church in Chicago, a thriving United Methodist multi-site church. However, her heart sank when she read the list of qualifications near the end:
• Creative mind and flexible work habits
• Commitment to learn about and engage a personal stewardship/fundraising plan
• Willingness to be held accountable to goals
• Engaged in regular spiritual practices
• Under 35 years of age
My friend is 55 years old and she felt shut out from even beginning to discern for this opportunity because of her age.
So the question is “Do you need to be under 35 years old to do church planting or is that an arbitrary number?”
Age matters when planting churches
To be clear, Urban Village is offering the role in concert with Path1, which has the explicit focus of “increase the number of young and diverse clergy under 35 years of age” in the United Methodist Church. However, I can’t find anything on the Path1 website that explicitly states that the program is just for folks under 35–indeed, the language implies that they are seeking church plants to reach people under 35 and guide them towards ordained ministry.
(Update 11-1-14): One of the pastors replied below and gave backstory on the requirement as coming from Path1 not Urban Village, and they have removed that line from the job posting. Here’s the quote:
I helped start UVC when I was 41 so I certainly believe “older” pastors can be planters! Someone brought our attention to this post, though, and we approached a Path1 representative for clarification. He, too, affirmed that the desire is to reach out to younger clergy and not to limit 35+-year-old pastors to apply so we were grateful for the clarification. We’ve changed the language in our post and notice. It now says that we encourage younger pastors to apply, but there is no age limit or ceiling.
Thanks for commenting, Christian!
However, the sentiment is still worth discussing: Do you need 35 year olds to reach young people?
I asked some of my church planting professional friends about the age question, and one of them had an interesting comment:
The rule of thumb has been that planters can reach people 10 years older or younger than their age, who are in a similar life-stage. Therefore, church plants targeted to younger people are typically led by younger planters. My experience has been that this is generally true. Churches become more multigenerational as they age, but usually for the first couple of years, new plants draw from a very similar demographic cohort.
35 is an important age these days. 35 year olds are currently at the hinge point between Generation X and Millennials, and if the above quote is correct, that means that–yielding to generational theory–such people can reach both generations authentically. So it makes sense to employ younger adults to do church planting.
Evangelicals seem to buy into this and almost solely rely on younger adults to do their church planting. So much so that it seems to be a formula that Christy Thomas caricatures in her recent blog post on church planting:
There is definitely a formula that underlies a successful church plant…[first, you need a] young, male, good-looking, charismatic pastor, preferably with a beautiful “smokin’ hot” wife and a couple of photogenic children. Best if he is a former athlete, and has muscles bulging under his tight t-shirt.
There is such a thing as too young, though. The Acts 29 network that plants churches encourages people to wait until they are 25 to engage in church planting. So for effective church planting, there’s apparently a magic age range between 25-35 years of age.
In summary, due to their interpretation of missional effectiveness and to reach a particular demographic, many churches rely on younger adults who can reach that younger demographic with perhaps more ease and authenticity.
I would love to know examples of church plants that don’t follow this formula and employ adults over 35 years of age in the pastoral role. Please comment below with examples!
Throwing Elder Adults Under the Missional Bus
And yet I’m fearful of what the church might have been without Jerry Herships, who pastors an innovative church plant in a Denver bar called After Hours. His church does terrific work with feeding the homeless (over 20,000 meals served! Take that, McDonalds!) and offering a safe non-churchy place for people traditionally excluded from church. (Update: Jerry says it’s now 100,000 meals served and 50,000 communions shared in the park. Ridiculous!).
Why is this important? Jerry started seminary in his 40s and began this church plant at 47. People now reach out to Jerry for church planting advice and churches in non-traditional settings, and he is transforming the church from the inside-out.
So if folks over 35 years of age can do church planting, the question changes a bit: is outright exclusion of adults over 35 an expression of ageism?
On this blog, we talk a lot about young clergy issues, but the other end of the age spectrum is equally important. One of our bigger thrusts in recent years was pushing back on the Texas area of the United Methodist Church and their ordination requirement that was discouraging to senior adults. Here’s those posts:
- Over Age 45? Texas UMC doesn’t want you in ordained ministry.
- Is the Texas UMC Accidentally Ageist?
- Over Age 45? Texas wants YOU in ordained ministry…maybe.
As part of this conversation, the United Methodist Reporter interviewed a friend of mine in Oklahoma who was ordained at 53 years of age and is a senior pastor in Oklahoma–his spouse is UM clergy too. Here’s why he endured and changed careers late in life:
Mark Whitley said he and his wife are “all in,” having spent virtually all their savings in preparing for their pastoral call. But he said the two have no regrets. Before becoming a pastor despite his career advances, he said he always felt a “gnawing sense of emptiness.”
“Every pastor understands the pain of ministry,” he said, “but the pain of leaving my call right now would far exceed whatever pain I feel as a pastor. It’s who I am.” He added that to turn someone away because “they’ve reached an arbitrary age seems deeply, deeply disingenuous.”
I understand that demographics play a part in considerations for qualifications for both ordained ministry and for ministry opportunities. It takes a match of church mission and individual sense of ministry for a particular job.
However, excluding a group does not inclusion make. For a church that seeks full inclusion, it’s odd to have this as a requirement. We can be open to LGBTQ persons, ethnic minorities, persons from other denominations, and the full spectrum of gender diversity…but to exclude people because they’ve reached an arbitrary age seems–as Rev. Whitley said–deeply disingenuous.
God calls people to serve the church, and sometimes those people are called later in life, perhaps after they’ve learned some interdisciplinary skills from their first career that would be a perfect match for a church plant. To deny people an opportunity based solely on age is to deny the whole Church an opportunity to grow and be transformed by their novel perspective.
Your turn
Thoughts?
- In your view, are successful church plants done best by younger adults? Are there examples of church plants done by folks over 35 years old?
- Does excluding adults over 35 years of age seem more like ageism to you or more like a simple job requirement that can be arbitrarily set by a faith community?
Discuss! Thanks for your comments and for your shares.
Well this explains a lot. I’m too old. I have felt for a while that I’m in a odd group. Not old enough and not young enough.
Thankfully, I have you in the “just awesome” category, Sonja!
Having just entered the “older clergy” category myself, one thing I find intriguing is that many of my own “age cohort” peers are entering a stage of life where they may be “spiritually searching” in ways they did not when they were younger. I actually remember when “Reaching Baby Boomers” was the “hot topic.” What about “church planting” among folks who are “cramming for the final”?
How old was moses? I’m 60 yrs old, went to ministry school at 50, planted a church at 55. I don’t care what man says ( the new and modern church) I care what God says. If God said go plant a church without some fancy piece of paper hanging on the wall and just a bible in hand I’d do that to. Church is a calling , not a business, a degree mill, or an under 35 thing. Praise God forever. Pastor keith
I’m 67, headed for Year 3 interview with the Board of Ordained Ministry (Oklahoma Annual Conference) next month. I am not a church planter, but have served 5 churches in the Oklahoma Annual Conference (2 years as a Supply Pastor, 1 as PL, 6 as FL, 1 as AM, 2 and 1/2 as PE) – most of the new regular attenders and new members in those churches while I served as pastor were in there 20’s or 30s.
The average age of the adults (over age 18) in worship Sunday mornings at the church I now serve is just under 40; new regular attenders in the past year are predominately under 40 (most under 35) – lots of young families, lots of children, lots of babies.
I’m not saying that I have some special gift for reaching young adults, but I am willing to say that somehow God reaches young adults through me.
Is the age of the pastor or church planter an important consideration? Certainly, it is. But it is only one important consideration among many with regard to likely effectiveness in any pastoral ministry situation, including new church starts/church planting.
Thanks be to God.
What an embarrassment for Christianity. I have no interest in a church that teaches in word or deed that elders (or any other age cohort, for that matter) are irrelevant.
I am 75 and started a new jail ministry in our county. I have a team of 14 or 15 middle-aged adults working with me now who are on fire for God. We are reaching those in jail; but also see our team growing spiritually.
One of the things which has turned me off about who is chosen for church starts is the sexism and the ageism which is practiced by our Conferences. It’s a good thing they didn’t choose the original disciples. Christianity wouldn’t have gone very far if it had been left up to the United Methodist Church. We should be in prayer asking God who to choose; not how old or what sex they are.
Thats right! My church is going through the same thing. Our pastor of 39 yrs has started a travelling ministry, and he was 69 when he left, and now this new pastor who is 33 separates the older from the young EVERY service. Im 27 and im not allowed to go out and eat with my church family on Thursdays. Only 50 and older.
My father (also clergy) and I were recently discussing ageism in the church because of some terrible remarks that he heard about older clergy from a retired clergy spouse. His response to me…”In the United Methodist Church, you are too young until you’re too old. There is about a week when you are the right age, but I was on vacation that week.”
Your father is wise
Personally, I don’t think that young pastors reach young people…good pastors reach young people…and middle aged people, and older people…
Amen to that!
At 54 and entering the ministry, I was told in Texas that it wouldn’t be impossible, but very difficult to get through the process. However, I received great support from my Texas church and am now in the the Yellowstone Conference where I was accepted enthusiastically.
Having said that, I have often thought, if someone is called (and validated several times as such), why should the response of the church be anything but enthusiastic? Certainly not a stumbling block.
For those of us who are older, our call and/or gift may not be at starting a 30-something church, but obviously God has something in mind. I do not know yet where God will send me, but I am saying yes.
I believe the church should do the same. Look at the call, the gifts and talents, and shout “yes”, we can use you to help fulfill God’s plan for this broken world.
As one of the older people in Jerry Herships’ church, I can tell you that ageism is not an issue. But I can understand how a youthfulness is important. Starting a church at 45, I might be more set in my ways and not be as open to the input of the younger audience. At the same time I know a ministry that caters to younger adults left me feeling excluded when they were inviting of folks under 35, but older folks were OK to come too. So it is tough. Jerry is a young 51 year old now, and I think the energy that he brings is what draws people. Without that youthful drive and energy I don’t know that After Hours Denver would bring in the 20 and 30-somethings that we are in ministry with. It does disgust me when age is blatantly used as a factor in hiring or inviting.
I do believe that they had the right to use age as a requirement when the objective was to build a small group of that age group and to increase younger clergy. Other than that it is pure ageism.
Generally using age as a qualifier is just another way of marginalizing each other. I am a 55 year old who has committed my life to being a part of the transformation of Church and I firmly believe that God has called me to this work at this time in my life.
I have a life surrounded by 50ish year old people who have left church and who are yearning for something else. The idea that only young people want something else is ridiculous. I also know that all of us have richer experiences when we stop putting each other in boxes, and age is one box. Why age determines anything about us is not true. I am younger than many people my age and can be more playful than younger people. We need to stop using stereotypical language like “young people are XXX or old people are XXX”. I believe the opposite is also true. I don’t put up with people who think old people are wiser. I have had teens be my teacher and lead spirit filled workshops.
We love to marginalize each other and we need to begin to stop making statements that limit who we are and what we expect from each other.
I have the privilege, serving on our conference’s New Church Development Committee, of working with many of our church planters in the Rocky Mountain Conference (including Jerry Herships). I can say, thankfully, that our conference does not follow the under-35 model, certainly not strictly. Thinking about past and present planters I know, well over half that come to mind were over 35 (some more than others!) This may speak to our conference’s ability to not follow conventional models (or our inability to do so!). I have heard the 10+/- rule from Path1 leaders but have never heard it as an absolute. But I do agree that when trying to reach a certain age demographic, finding a planter the “right age” helps, if nothing more than avoiding some obstacles of perception in the population the planter is trying to reach.
I see great irony here considering that this post is just prior to the Sunday when we celebrate our saints.
Hmmmm… 🙂
I work in campus ministry, not in church planting, but my observation is that there is not necessarily a correlation between the age of a person and their ability to connect with people of a particular age group. We have 80 year old members of our campus ministry team who connect very well with the students; and there are young people that we’ve interviewed for an internship position who didn’t seem to at all connect with the students. Conversely, there are young people who have real gifts in ministry with elderly folks. So I don’t know if I buy the 10 year rule. Sorry for the cliche, but I think there’s a lot of truth in it: what younger folks tend to really value in leadership is transparency, authenticity, and energy. Those aren’t age-bound characteristics.
I’m not sure the Urban Village gig is the best example to pick on, since I think the goal of the residency is the development of young clergy, which is an important consideration (though I definitely hear the validity of the concerns of 2nd career folks who feel ‘stuck in the middle.’) But my sense is that we’ve gotten way too caught up in age categorizations in the church — an internal focus — instead of focusing on missional needs — an external focus.
David, that’s about the thrust of the second section: do we need to have younger people reach younger people? Is the goal of Path1 to develop young clergy by hiring them as the intern or by reaching them through this intern? I don’t know and I can’t tell from the materials. Hopefully someone from Path1 or UVC will see this and can clarify for us.
I just turned 54. I am a year and a half from graduating from seminary. I am very interested in church planting as a way to develop a church that truly welcomes and celebrates the differences in culture, gender identity, ethnicity and age that we find in most community. It seems to me that even though the right pastor is important, the team behind the pastor is just as important, if not more so. I am studying the issues involved in multicultural churches and church planting. I hope to be able to have a church plant, but I do wonder if my age would make it challenging. Only time will tell.
I’ve been thinking about this a little bit today. number #1: we need more churches. More churches! I agree with Christy Thomas’ idea of the UMC being the “mom and pop” compliment to big box churches. But if we are going to live into that reality, we need MORE CHURCHES. That means more clergy or creativity in church leadership. Either way, we cannot discriminate clergy in church planting situations. #2: Every age has some specific advantage in a church plant. If we live into the “mom and pop” church plant identity, then each church plant should take a more contextual (ie. boutique) nature. Every church should look and feel different from every other, reflecting its community better than big box churches. That will take a variety of clergy, including different ages. #3: More churches. Everywhere. #4: I always feel a little pigeon holed as a young man, with a slim build, cute family, a few tasteful tattoos, and some technological savvy. I’m often labeled evangelical and conservative before anyone knows me. Our church has grown dramatically in this year, and I hear people crediting my age, gender, and appearance, rather than my education, work ethic, and leadership. While my age offers some privileges, it also creates many challenges. Whatever privilege my age affords, I try to capitalize, and whatever challenge it creates, I try to meet head on with hard work and good thinking. #5: We need more young clergy in general, and I don’t think it’s a problem to create good and incentivized positions that cater specifically to young clergy. #6: the Royals lost the world series tonight, and so I’m not sure if I should be held accountable for any online rants I make tonight.
St Columban, the great celtic missionary of the late 6th century left Ireland on mission when he was 50 years old. He planted missional communities (monastery) throughout western Europe. He crossed the pals on foot when he was 70 to start a new work in Italy. #justsaying
Personally, I see the ever increasing number of older members of our church as not only a blessing, but also a great opportunity. This demographic will definitely play an important role in church planting or bi-vocational, part-time lay pastoring of smaller churches in the future. The church needs to waken up to the massive potential here.
A great example of a new faith community with an over 35 planter is in Harrisonburg, Virginia. It grew out of a Wesley Foundation and connects with college students and young adults – specifically those who have become disconnected from or hurt by the church.
I started a church in Ann Arbor, Michigan when I was 37. I noticed that most of those who joined were within about fifteen years of my age (22-52). Fortunately an elderly coupled volunteered to be part of the congregation. They recruited, nurtured and “nabbed” everyone with grey hair to become a part of that young congregation. They brought in age and wisdom we still lacked. It steadied and guided us from foolish mistakes. I know clergy in their 60’s who could plant new, vital congregations. I also know many in their 30’s who lack the wisdom and skills to be successful. If given an age limit I would say many in the mid 40’s (and even beyond) could be highly successful in planting a young, vital, and yet mature congregation that would produce much fruit.
Thanks, everyone, for this conversation. I’m one of the founding pastors of Urban Village and I hope I can shed a little light on this. It just so happens that Trey Hall (the other founding pastor) and I were at a Path1 gathering so the post was timely.
Our understanding had been that the age limitation was more for empowering/training/recruiting young clergy and not an assumption that only young clergy can reach young adults. Indeed, I helped start UVC when I was 41 so I certainly believe “older” pastors can be planters! Someone brought our attention to this post, though, and we approached a Path1 representative for clarification. He, too, affirmed that the desire is to reach out to younger clergy and not to limit 35+-year-old pastors to apply so we were grateful for the clarification. We’ve changed the language in our post and notice. It now says that we encourage younger pastors to apply, but there is no age limit or ceiling.
Thanks again for the thoughtful conversation.
Thanks Christian. I’ve updated the post to better reflect your ministry. Thanks for your work and comment!
I am 4 years into a New Church Plant. I was 45 when we planted and I am now 49. We started with 37 people and average 250 per week with all ages. Lots of children, young families, teens, college age and middle age adults. We have a healthy number of senior citizens. We are a growing and thriving congregation in a small town. Everybody has a study, everybody has an opinion and then there is God. God confounds the wise in ways that seem foolish to most and when it comes to starting and pastoring a church, God can and will use whom He pleases. I don’t know why we would discourage anyone of any age from doing what God has called them to do. I agree there are some things that have to be considered, such as past experience, has a person a history of starting things that are successful. This could be anything from a club, Sunday School Class, business, etc…
Sometimes we try our best and we really mess it up. I think the UMC and most would agree there are great leaders of all ages. By the way, there are people of all ages who need to be introduced to Christ.
If we believe the key to making disciples of any age is a function of how old the pastor is, then the church and disciple making are in serious trouble as those Clergy I see at conference are mostly over that age. Perhaps the solution is to make mandatory retirement age 36. With this, the denomination would certainly be more likely to make far more “disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world.”
I am 80 years old. I retired in 1998. Rich Griffith a 48 year old minister working on his doctorate’s was appointed this year to the Chapel Hill United Methodist Church. Rich has sown his seeds at this church to primarily reach the next generation. His vision is that of intergenerational ministry. In modeling this vision, he recently invited me to become co-pastor of this growing church. Rich is convinced of the power of bringing together experience, energy and vision. In order to accomplish this, he is not threatened by an aged pastor sharing his ministry. Nor am I eager to take the controls. We both recognize that our generational differences can compliment one another. Recently, to celebrate my 80th birthday,Rich and I took the plunge and skydived for the Murphy Harpts children center, raising a sizeable support for their ministry. This past Sunday, all Saints Day, Rich and I did a dialogue sermon on the subject of CHANGE. He spoke on those who have come before and I spoke on the next generation of the future.
To do these kind of ministries together, we both have to set aside our own agendas and recognize that the next generation is top priority if we are to continue making Disciples.
All of this is to say that Paul/Timothy ministry is still a valid model if we seek first the Kingdom of God!
Pre-judging people based on age is no different than other prejudices. Candidates for ministry or leadership should be considered baste on their gifts and skills. I have waited 50 years for the UMC to become a prophetic, justice focused denomination and that won’t happen if we cling to our biases. I long for genuine, spirit filled worship that embraces everyone and it is painful to think I might be considered too old for that.
It seems like whenever there is something in our Church geared toward younger adults, the older adults always say “what about us?” . . . But if the average United Methodist is over 65, that means older adults are already involved. What’s wrong with making spaces specifically for younger adults?? As a young adult in the denomination I don’t see many spaces for people of my age group. We’re a group that is very small, so why not encourage us to take active, meaningful roles?? What’s wrong with making extra effort to include young people because we aren’t very visible to begin with? I don’t think it’s ageism. I think the church is making room for people who haven’t felt very important.
This ageism in the Methodist church is evil; it is unbiblical, anti-Patristic and at odds with the history of the Methodist church itself. John Wesley was of great age when he sent Coke to the new world. Justin Martyr and Polycarp were elderly when martyred. And of course, the example of Abraham, Moses and Aaron should serve as an even greater validation of the aged in the church.
I have a friend who is a priest in the Episcopal Church USA, but by virtue of his advanced age, he will be retiring in a month or two. Yet an Orthodox Church down the street has a bishop in his 80s and a priest in his late 70s.
I believe that the elder Christians are those best equipped for ministry, because their life experience has shown them the movement of God in the human experience, and they can testify to this. Indeed, at a local Methodist parish with a largely elderly congregation, the pastor often invited the grandees of his flock to briefly speak, and what they had to say was invariably uplifting.
In the Eastern church, theology is not regarded as the Thomistic academic pursuit we see it as in the West but rather as the acquisition of direct knowledge of God. The example of the Russian starets beginning at the turn of the 19th century with Seraphim of Sarov should further demonstrate the intrinsic worth of the elderly in conveying the knowledge of a God to the young. This idea that you must be young in order to reach the young is entirely perverse; it’s like saying schoolchildren should be taught only by their classmates.
I’m searching for articles on this trend to recruit, train, groom, and plant planters as yet another young colleague is moved away to be trained in multi-site church ministry planting. I’m extremely excited for him and his family. As I read this post, I find he fits the description to a “T”–and I find that I am not mistaken in my assumption that age and gender are key pieces to this current trend. And I find that I don’t like it. As a past chair of my conference COSROW, and as a second-career clergy, and as someone who has discussed participating in similar ministry opportunities in my conference, I find quite a bit of discrimination. As others have written, there are skills and gifts for ministry in every demographic that reaches every demographic. I pray these programs for training and developing young clergy are effective and that ministry endeavors are successful in planting the right people in the path of those ready to hear the good news. Otherwise, I fear we are going to be frustrated when the marketing of youth to youth fails and we have to start over again. There are older clergy who aren’t devoted to the old ways of doing and being the church, who are mobile and flexible, open and creative, and charismatic.
If you have suggestions for other articles/authors exploring this trend, would you please send them along? Blessings.
I have read the article and I have read the post, and yet no one seems to mention that Abraham, and Moses, two great followers of God were over the magic age of 35. In fact Moses was 80 when God called him to started in the ministry, and Abraham was in the same ball park. Come on guys, what are you thinking? What is wrong with our country? What is wrong with our church leaders? If we would read about Elders in 1 Timothy Chapter 3 you will see they are over age 35, in fact they are much older and should be due their wisdom and experience in life. It tells us in this same scripture to put a Novice in the place of an Elder will cause him to come under the same condemnation as Satan. Scary thought if you were a young elder/leader in the church.
In the Jewish tradition, Elders means bearded one. There is a reason for that, maturity. I am over 55, and I will tell you the younger people listen to me, because I listen to them. I do have the skill sets for church planting and planting ministries. My call is Evangelism and Church Planting (Apostolic- Missions, one sent out). If you think old, you are old, but if you think young, you are young. My hat goes off to Abraham and Moses. Yes Jesus started His ministry at age 30. That to me is a good age to start, since Jesus started then. But in no way does that make you an elder if you are 30, 40, 50. In fact Elders are the overseers of the flock of God, 1 Peter 5, not the Equippers, which that is what Pastors are, so are the other 4, first is Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher. Ephesians 4:11-12. If we get the House in order, then we will be more successful, and that is not in numbers, but the health of the congregants. Let’s do Acts 2,
they meet daily and they added the numbers daily as they met they broke bread together and help anyone who had need. No BIG platforms here, just submitting to God and submitting to each other. Now that is God’s Church!
When you are a 62 year old body trapped in a 35 something mindset but you are told continually – “yeah, we ‘don’t age discriminate (but we do), or ‘have tried being a chaplain or sr’s ministry or even thought about Walmart ..?’ then you know the gig is up. Wayyyyyy too much in the tank for that – listening to messages on using gifts, while you are being treated like a lump of coal always hurts. Wake up church.
I did an “end-run” around the entire age issue in my denom (Episcopal) by becoming a deacon rather than priest. We can start and run just about any ministry we want, which creates a true “faith community” every time. It’s just that it doesn’t exactly look like a “church”, which is often a good thing, frankly. Traditional church is not everyone’s cup of tea, and that’s ok, as long as we offer and support alternatives. We can do much good by thinking outside the box and do an end-run around those pesky old parameters.
Interesting article and commentary.
Considering that in secular world job opportunities one is never allowed to disqualify a candidate for a position based on age, or they would legally seize to be an equal opportunity employer. Sort of scary that we should pose this possibility in modern day American church.